Do you ride the bus in Jacksonville?

[Cliffs_Daughter]

I would encourage you to email Mr Hannan... the majority of the people who emailed about the skyway were people that just complained about what a waste of money it was, but yet have never ridden it.

People in this city are pretty good at complaining, but not so good about doing something about it.

Thanks for reminding me the purpose of this thread - I just sent him an elaborated version of my post. I do hope it will help him out.

For one, I'd love to just catch the bus home with my son and leave the car d-town for the Mr. to drive home when his bus arrives at night sometimes.   But he says it's too dangerous.
Hah. Puh-leeez. I've ridden Dade/Broward transit for years before moving back up here and getting my own wheels, and even used skates in between stops... I'm not scared.

[Overstreet]

Do you ride the bus in Jacksonville?

No. 

It don't go when or where I need to go. Not enough cup holders. The radio ........radio? 

[Dog Walker]

Rode the Riverside Trolley Bus yesterday for the first time since the new hours and routing were put in place.  Did it just to see if the new route would be useful since we mostly use it to go downtown to the library.

The driver, who said she was a twelve year veteran of JTA, was cheerful, helpful, polite and highly skilled.  The trolley-bus was noisy and bumpy, but she drove smooth and safe.  She also said that the lunchtime crowd was complaining about the fare increase, but that she had not noticed and reduction in riders.  Since we have senior passes, it is not an issue for us and there were several people who rode to the FSCJ-Kent campus with us.

[Keith-N-Jax]

Thank God I have my own transportation.

[ProjectMaximus]

I've taken AirJTA 4 or 5 times and never had any problems.

Other than that, no.

[fieldafm]

Rode the Riverside Trolley Bus yesterday for the first time since the new hours and routing were put in place.  Did it just to see if the new route would be useful since we mostly use it to go downtown to the library.

How often have you used it in the past?
Would you say the route and headways were useful to you?
Would you use it more frequently or infrequently now that you've experienced the changes?

Thank you in advance if you care to share.  I know that's quite a bit of questions, Im just extremely interested as I think the success of this route could be evidence used for fixed mass transit options to the urban neighborhoods surrounding downtown.

[Ocklawaha]

Thank you in advance if you care to share.  I know that's quite a bit of questions, Im just extremely interested as I think the success of this route could be evidence used for fixed mass transit options to the urban neighborhoods surrounding downtown.

The success of this route cannot be used as an accurate gauge of ridership on fixed transit. Streetcars appeal to a broader market and heritage streetcars to the broad market and tourism. Tuscon Arizona had a similar "pct trolley" which ran from the university into downtown via all of the cool entertainment spots, on something close to a 16 hour day/365 at about .50 cents per ride. A heritage streetcar operated by volunteers operated over a fraction of the same route from the university in the general direction (but not into) downtown, 2 days a week, at several dollars per ride. In a year of operation the heritage streetcar actually had more riders by a large margin, proof enough that you just don't get "streetcars" from "potato chip trucks."

OCKLAWAHA

[fieldafm]

Thank you in advance if you care to share.  I know that's quite a bit of questions, Im just extremely interested as I think the success of this route could be evidence used for fixed mass transit options to the urban neighborhoods surrounding downtown.

The success of this route cannot be used as an accurate gauge of ridership on fixed transit. Streetcars appeal to a broader market and heritage streetcars to the broad market and tourism. Tuscon Arizona had a similar "pct trolley" which ran from the university into downtown via all of the cool entertainment spots, on something close to a 16 hour day/365 at about .50 cents per ride. A heritage streetcar operated by volunteers operated over a fraction of the same route from the university in the general direction (but not into) downtown, 2 days a week, at several dollars per ride. In a year of operation the heritage streetcar actually had more riders by a large margin, proof enough that you just don't get "streetcars" from "potato chip trucks."

OCKLAWAHA

That's all when and good Ock, but it seems that JTA needs any and all encouragement it can get.  If you could show increased business along that route based on increased ridership from a not-really-a-trolley line, combined with positive economic results from other communities that have adopted streetcar lines... wouldn't that just be more ammunition to use to encourage private businesses to get behind the idea to push fixed mass transit in this city?  Certain interested parties/businesses that have tremendous power have traditionally been opposed to fixed transit in this city.  If fixed mass transit is to become a reality, it would seem that an important part is to get businesses who would benefit from such systems to get behind the push.  Businesses tend to follow money. 

The PCT routes is the way JTA has decided to go at this time, so at least IMO it stands to reason to at least work with what you've been given and use the experience gained and lessons learned to push for a much better way in the future, no?

Its an incremental step for sure, but Rome's streetcars weren't built in a day.   

I'll have to brush up on the Tuscon example.  Thanks for the info!

[Ocklawaha]

FAMILY TREE?
MOMMA CHIP

DADDY CHIP

WTF CHIP

DOWNRIGHT APOCALYPTIC AIN'T IT?

The Tucson example was originally published by http://www.lightrailnow.org/search.htm, and I reprinted it in the old MetJax forum. I have spent several hours looking for the article as I was going to re-repost it and I'll be damned if I can find it now. The guys at LRN are very helpful and would probably be able to locate the article next week if we asked them.

The reason for my adverse reaction to the PCT-Streetcar tie in is that many (maybe most) people in Jacksonville don't know the difference and don't want to hear it. The former Director of SPAR said it when she heard my proposal for restoring the postcard Main Street, "Oh Lord no! We don't need streetcars in Jacksonville, we already have TROLLEYS!"

I immediately stuck a fork in my hand to make sure I really heard this and that I wasn't dead and in HELL! Nope! I was still alive and in total disbelief. Since that day I can't count how many times I've heard the same or a similar line ranging from, "The people hate rail, but they love our trolleys," from JTA to "Don't we already have trolleys," from city council.

Yes, the successful ridership is a great thing, and yes those figures might plug into a study for demand-supply of raw product, but the tendency is to make much more of it since the PCT's are plastic show-boats, glitzy abominations, neither streetcars, trolleys or even good buses.

Ever wonder what it might look like if the baby died and the after-birth lived? JTA knows and calls them trolleys. Rest assured that the day I take over mass transit at JTA (like that will ever happen) that entire fleet is headed for artificial reef status just as soon as age dictates their last mile. Even as deep sea reefs those circus clown buses just might kill the fish.


OCKLAWAHA 

[mtraininjax]

JTA is a joke,

[ChriswUfGator]

Thank you in advance if you care to share.  I know that's quite a bit of questions, Im just extremely interested as I think the success of this route could be evidence used for fixed mass transit options to the urban neighborhoods surrounding downtown.

The success of this route cannot be used as an accurate gauge of ridership on fixed transit. Streetcars appeal to a broader market and heritage streetcars to the broad market and tourism. Tuscon Arizona had a similar "pct trolley" which ran from the university into downtown via all of the cool entertainment spots, on something close to a 16 hour day/365 at about .50 cents per ride. A heritage streetcar operated by volunteers operated over a fraction of the same route from the university in the general direction (but not into) downtown, 2 days a week, at several dollars per ride. In a year of operation the heritage streetcar actually had more riders by a large margin, proof enough that you just don't get "streetcars" from "potato chip trucks."

OCKLAWAHA

Right on the money as usual, Ock.

[Dog Walker]

Head time, head time, head time.  Did I say head time?  We generally ride the trolley-bus three or four times per month to go to the main library downtown and have lunch at Chamblin's or Magnificat Cafe.  (Bernard and Kathy DeClef are former neighbors, really good people and the food is terrific.)

All of the P route buses run close to us as well, but we've only tried them once but were discouraged by the long waits and unpredictable schedules.

If it's too blinking hot or raining, we take the car and can always find parking on the street within a block or two of the library, but the meters we find are one hour max and that is generally too short for the time we want to spend.  The trolley-buses are our preference and we are looking forward to the expanded hours even with thirty-five minute head time.  We haven't tried the expanded hours yet and I am afraid that will be too long to stand out in the sun with no bench and no shelter.

The trolley-buses are noisy and rough riding, but the distances are short.  If you have never ridden a "real" on-the-rails street car you have no appreciation of how much quieter, smoother and all around more pleasant they are to ride.  Even the ancient St. Charles line in New Orleans is far superior to the trolley-buses and they aren't even air-conditioned.

[CS Foltz]

Dog Walker, it would be nice if JTA got the message, but I would not hold my breath for it to take place. You would self destruct from a lack of oxygen before that happens!

[Ocklawaha]

Dog Walker, it would be nice if JTA got the message, but I would not hold my breath for it to take place. You would self destruct from a lack of oxygen before that happens!

It COULD happen CS, you do know that Moon in Aquarius right now!

http://www.youtube.com/v/EhbxI5eVnM4?fs=1&hl=en_US&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca

BTW, the opening scene's star is an old Continental Trailways Silver Eagle - 5 with stick shift and without the new style roof cap. I once went 12 rounds with one of these beasts stalled on the steep bus ramp at the entry of the Jacksonville Trailways station! But for all the negative Nellie's out there it also demonstrates the pleasures of travel on a real and decent motor coach. Something I have been trying to convince JTA about for the long express routes... danish and coffee anyone? reclining seats and wifi? fax machine/scanner/copier and music? 110 volt outlets and TV monitors? WHO THE HELL WOULDN'T RIDE?

Finally lets do something the rest of Florida isn't!

See:
http://www.bauerswi-drive.org/
http://www.silvereaglebus.com/model15.htm

OCKLAWAHA

[fieldafm]

Ever wonder what it might look like if the baby died and the after-birth lived? JTA knows and calls them trolleys.

Although, I dont quite share the same amount of contentiousness for the PCT trucks that you do... that's pretty damn funny 

If it's too blinking hot or raining, we take the car and can always find parking on the street within a block or two of the library, but the meters we find are one hour max and that is generally too short for the time we want to spend.  The trolley-buses are our preference and we are looking forward to the expanded hours even with thirty-five minute head time.  We haven't tried the expanded hours yet and I am afraid that will be too long to stand out in the sun with no bench and no shelter.

Thanks for the insight DogWalker!  The headways during peak lunchtimes have been reduced to 15 minutes.  Here is the current schedule.  FYI the last 3 days I rode the service, the busses have been pretty spot on these times suprisingly!

http://www.jtafla.com/pdf/Sept%202010%20Service%20Changes/Riverside%20Trolley.pdf