Twisted Martini closing at The Jacksonville Landing

[tufsu1]

This is Jazz Fest, Tufsu. One busy weekend out of a whole year doesn't support a business...

Jazz Fest is one weekend...country concerts are another 8 nights a year...FL-GA is 3 nights long...New Years/Gator Bowl...July 4th...monthly yappy hour...monthly bike nights...the list goes on

you can make a lot of money during these...as has been stated by at least one downtown businesses, they make their monthly rent payment on ArtWalk night alone.

[ChriswUfGator]

This is Jazz Fest, Tufsu. One busy weekend out of a whole year doesn't support a business...

Jazz Fest is one weekend...country concerts are another 8 nights a year...FL-GA is 3 nights long...New Years/Gator Bowl...July 4th...monthly yappy hour...monthly bike nights...the list goes on

you can make a lot of money during these...as has been stated by at least one downtown businesses, they make their monthly rent payment on ArtWalk night alone.

1: So adding all of that up, you have two weeks a year that don't suck. What do they do the other 50?

2: Rent is only one part of total overhead. The rest of the month, they need to worry about salaries, licensing, paying suppliers and distributors, electric, water, cable, cleaning, etc. No downtown business makes its whole monthly nut on Art Walk.

3: If you're right, and it's just so awesome, then why is the place almost totally vacant, and the few remaining businesses have closed up or pulled out? Have these businesses, and all the customers who didn't go there, just missed how awesome the place is?

I got your point now! We should clearly blame the people who didn't flock to a dying mall full of stores that don't accept credit cards and give off the vibe of a sketchy 7-11, or decided to go to one of the other million Hooters restaurants to get their $10 burger without a $15 side of parking ticket. I got it now, that makes total sense. See, I would have called all those people who chose not to put up with that "smart" but thanks to your enlightened wisdom, I now realize they're all to blame for the landing's failure.

Well awesome, I'm glad we settled that, then.

[tufsu1]

This is Jazz Fest, Tufsu. One busy weekend out of a whole year doesn't support a business...

Jazz Fest is one weekend...country concerts are another 8 nights a year...FL-GA is 3 nights long...New Years/Gator Bowl...July 4th...monthly yappy hour...monthly bike nights...the list goes on

1: So adding all of that up, you have two weeks a year that don't suck. What do they do the other 50?

umm...even ignoring my statement "the list goes on" I get 3 (jazz fest) + 8 (country concerts) +3 (FL-GA) + 2 (New Years/gator Bowl) + 1 (July 4th) + 12 (yappy hour) +12 (bike night)....equals 41 days..or almost 6 weeks.

nice math..good thing you're a lawyer  

[PeeJayEss]

There is something going on most weekend nights at the Landing that draws a pretty good crowd. The restaurants and courtyard are generally pretty packed all day on weekends. Add the fundraisers, 5ks, walks, concerts (both in the courtyard and at Mavericks (which gets some real good acts), and random events (Trail of Tails was pretty packed this past weekend), and you've got quite a few more days than 14. The food court gets a big crowd for lunch on weekdays, and thats with it being a pretty sub-standard food court. Plus it just gets a lot of runners and bikers, etc (though the riverwalk should be widened in front of the east end of the Landing where its constricted), and its just a good view and nice place to hang out. It also tells people staying at the Crowne Plaza that there is something going on DT, even if its not always the best thing in the world. Sure its dead weekday nights, but this ain't NYC: most places are dead weekday nights.

Take from this what you will, but Hooters always has a crowd. Not that I know from going there  . It may be the only place that is consistently crowded, but American Grill, Benny's, and Koja do well, and Cinco de Mayo does alright. Vito's appears to be struggling (haven't eaten there but have drank - wasn't impressed), but from what I've heard its not that great. I don't understand why Chicago Pizza doesn't do better since its a sweet location and I think good food. Of course, they are catering to the same crowd as Hooters, and Hooters is doing a much better job of drawing them, (this may say more about Jacksonvillains than the Landing).

Not that the market is great, but the vacancies may have more to do with management than market. There are people going through the place. Everybody should check it out.

[BigGuy219]

Vito's appears to be struggling (haven't eaten there but have drank - wasn't impressed), but from what I've heard its not that great.

I went once. Once. It was just an awful experience. It wasn't just that the food wasn't great, but also the service left a lot to be desired.

It is the only restaurant in the landing I wouldn't recomend to someone.

[BridgeTroll]

There is something going on most weekend nights at the Landing that draws a pretty good crowd. The restaurants and courtyard are generally pretty packed all day on weekends. Add the fundraisers, 5ks, walks, concerts (both in the courtyard and at Mavericks (which gets some real good acts), and random events (Trail of Tails was pretty packed this past weekend), and you've got quite a few more days than 14. The food court gets a big crowd for lunch on weekdays, and thats with it being a pretty sub-standard food court. Plus it just gets a lot of runners and bikers, etc (though the riverwalk should be widened in front of the east end of the Landing where its constricted), and its just a good view and nice place to hang out. It also tells people staying at the Crowne Plaza that there is something going on DT, even if its not always the best thing in the world. Sure its dead weekday nights, but this ain't NYC: most places are dead weekday nights.

Take from this what you will, but Hooters always has a crowd. Not that I know from going there  . It may be the only place that is consistently crowded, but American Grill, Benny's, and Koja do well, and Cinco de Mayo does alright. Vito's appears to be struggling (haven't eaten there but have drank - wasn't impressed), but from what I've heard its not that great. I don't understand why Chicago Pizza doesn't do better since its a sweet location and I think good food. Of course, they are catering to the same crowd as Hooters, and Hooters is doing a much better job of drawing them, (this may say more about Jacksonvillains than the Landing).

Not that the market is great, but the vacancies may have more to do with management than market. There are people going through the place. Everybody should check it out.

I agree with PJS and Tufsu here.  Chris has never liked the place and never goes.  The country concerts are jam packed.  Bands play in the courtyard a nearly every Friday and Saturday night.  Mavericks is jam packed on Fridays and Saturdays.  I understand the music is probably nothing that might draw many of our MJers but there are plenty who attend these.  I think Slieman has actually done pretty well by bringing in bands on Fridays and Saturdays.

Nobody here is comparing it to Town center... nor is anyone claiming it is awesome... it simply is not as bad as Chris mistakenly thinks it is.

[dganson]

"I got your point now! We should clearly blame the people who didn't flock to a dying mall full of stores that don't accept credit cards ".Chris you obviously want to make point but every merchant at the Landing accepts credit cards except the cookie factory. Why do you have to make things up to make your point. This is blatantly dishonest and you bring shame to yourself telling these lies. I am a tenant here and have done fine and grown for 18 years. Tell the truth it will set you free.

[skooba]

I don't understand why Chicago Pizza doesn't do better since its a sweet location and I think good food. Of course, they are catering to the same crowd as Hooters, and Hooters is doing a much better job of drawing them, (this may say more about Jacksonvillains than the Landing).

Chicago Pizza needs to use a different sanitizer solution.  The entire inside smells absolutely terrible!  The only time I can tolerate going there is if we can sit on the patio.  Even walking through the inside to get to the patio make me want to vomit.  I'd guess that's why it's not as crowded as it could be.

[PeeJayEss]

Chicago Pizza needs to use a different sanitizer solution.  The entire inside smells absolutely terrible!  The only time I can tolerate going there is if we can sit on the patio.  Even walking through the inside to get to the patio make me want to vomit.  I'd guess that's why it's not as crowded as it could be.

Haven't noticed it, but you ought to send them an email or give them a call and let them know. That's something they'd probably be willing to change. Have you gone back or was once enough? Maybe it was a bad day. Again, haven't noticed it, but I also usually stay outside so I donno.

[skooba]

Chicago Pizza needs to use a different sanitizer solution.  The entire inside smells absolutely terrible!  The only time I can tolerate going there is if we can sit on the patio.  Even walking through the inside to get to the patio make me want to vomit.  I'd guess that's why it's not as crowded as it could be.

Haven't noticed it, but you ought to send them an email or give them a call and let them know. That's something they'd probably be willing to change. Have you gone back or was once enough? Maybe it was a bad day. Again, haven't noticed it, but I also usually stay outside so I donno.

I've probably been there about 10 times.  I work downtown and they have pretty good lunch specials.  We always sit on the patio because of the smell.  Haven't said anything to the management, which I guess we should, but I honestly don't know how they can't be aware of it.

[peestandingup]

There is something going on most weekend nights at the Landing that draws a pretty good crowd. The restaurants and courtyard are generally pretty packed all day on weekends. Add the fundraisers, 5ks, walks, concerts (both in the courtyard and at Mavericks (which gets some real good acts), and random events (Trail of Tails was pretty packed this past weekend), and you've got quite a few more days than 14. The food court gets a big crowd for lunch on weekdays, and thats with it being a pretty sub-standard food court. Plus it just gets a lot of runners and bikers, etc (though the riverwalk should be widened in front of the east end of the Landing where its constricted), and its just a good view and nice place to hang out. It also tells people staying at the Crowne Plaza that there is something going on DT, even if its not always the best thing in the world. Sure its dead weekday nights, but this ain't NYC: most places are dead weekday nights.

Take from this what you will, but Hooters always has a crowd. Not that I know from going there  . It may be the only place that is consistently crowded, but American Grill, Benny's, and Koja do well, and Cinco de Mayo does alright. Vito's appears to be struggling (haven't eaten there but have drank - wasn't impressed), but from what I've heard its not that great. I don't understand why Chicago Pizza doesn't do better since its a sweet location and I think good food. Of course, they are catering to the same crowd as Hooters, and Hooters is doing a much better job of drawing them, (this may say more about Jacksonvillains than the Landing).

Not that the market is great, but the vacancies may have more to do with management than market. There are people going through the place. Everybody should check it out.

I think this is pretty fair. I can see how with it being on the Riverwalk, with the background setting, etc, that it probably does get some decent "pass through" business & is halfway attractive to some locals who want that. I dont think any other place in town quite has that setup. I had a friend in town last week & he wanted to hang out there a lot of the time because he liked the setting. The weekend crowd wasnt that bad actually & the music was decent.

But it should be WAY better than what it is. The problems I've discussed here are indeed problems (and they need to also get rid of those lame ticket raffles too. Thats just kinda poor taste IMO & further cheapens the place).

Like I said, its nothing new management couldn't fix & perhaps a redux of the inside part as well. The inside mall part is what looks cheap & old (not to mention, slightly sketchy with subpar places to eat/shop). Just gut it & put some movie theaters in it or something. The stuff in there is doing nothing for the place.

[ChriswUfGator]

"I got your point now! We should clearly blame the people who didn't flock to a dying mall full of stores that don't accept credit cards ".Chris you obviously want to make point but every merchant at the Landing accepts credit cards except the cookie factory. Why do you have to make things up to make your point. This is blatantly dishonest and you bring shame to yourself telling these lies. I am a tenant here and have done fine and grown for 18 years. Tell the truth it will set you free.

Ah yes, here comes Doug Ganson again to weigh in without reading the thread first.

I was neither the original person who pointed that out, nor the last. Re-read the thread and you'll see that, while I agreed the Landing has some sketchy tenants, I was not who brought that up. So are we all liars then? And didn't your own place at the Landing just go out of business? This seems like an inopportune time to be making this argument, given the circumstances. If the place is so fabulous, as you and Tufsu claim, why does everything close?

Seems like quite the self-defeating argument, no?

[PeeJayEss]

But it should be WAY better than what it is. The problems I've discussed here are indeed problems

Agree totally. Its well short of its potential, but its not half bad even now.

[ChriswUfGator]

But it should be WAY better than what it is. The problems I've discussed here are indeed problems

Agree totally. Its well short of its potential, but its not half bad even now.

Then why is it largely vacant?

Why do all the tenants except one mediocre chain restaurant continually go out of business?

Why does it always lose money?

So, people just don't understand how amazing it is?

Damn those customers, it must be their fault.

[ChriswUfGator]

There is something going on most weekend nights at the Landing that draws a pretty good crowd. The restaurants and courtyard are generally pretty packed all day on weekends. Add the fundraisers, 5ks, walks, concerts (both in the courtyard and at Mavericks (which gets some real good acts), and random events (Trail of Tails was pretty packed this past weekend), and you've got quite a few more days than 14. The food court gets a big crowd for lunch on weekdays, and thats with it being a pretty sub-standard food court. Plus it just gets a lot of runners and bikers, etc (though the riverwalk should be widened in front of the east end of the Landing where its constricted), and its just a good view and nice place to hang out. It also tells people staying at the Crowne Plaza that there is something going on DT, even if its not always the best thing in the world. Sure its dead weekday nights, but this ain't NYC: most places are dead weekday nights.

Take from this what you will, but Hooters always has a crowd. Not that I know from going there  . It may be the only place that is consistently crowded, but American Grill, Benny's, and Koja do well, and Cinco de Mayo does alright. Vito's appears to be struggling (haven't eaten there but have drank - wasn't impressed), but from what I've heard its not that great. I don't understand why Chicago Pizza doesn't do better since its a sweet location and I think good food. Of course, they are catering to the same crowd as Hooters, and Hooters is doing a much better job of drawing them, (this may say more about Jacksonvillains than the Landing).

Not that the market is great, but the vacancies may have more to do with management than market. There are people going through the place. Everybody should check it out.

Well, then one more time, maybe you'd care to explain, given how awesome you think it is, why the place has had a 50%+ vacancy rate for decades and all the merchants there besides Hooters are continually going out of business?

And regarding your claim that it's bad management, that's ludicrous. The Landing has been failing for two decades, and Sleiman is only the most recent manager at the helm. Prior to him, Rouse Co. and General Growth, two of the largest mall operators in the country, and two operators whose similar urban-center projects in other cities have been great successes (for christsake's Rouse originally developed Faneuil Hall in Boston...they literally invented this concept) tried to make a go of it and failed.

The thing has been dying since the day it opened. It has never made a profit at any point during its existence. So, aside from the very people who actually invented the whole concept, who would you believe is more qualified to manage it? 

So, what's the deal then, given your view? People just don't understand how awesome it is?