Consolidated Government's Effect on Downtown. Affordable Urban Core Housing Issues

[tufsu1]

Sorry but the surrounding neighborhoods are not very desirable in my opinion.  I don't want to live in a place where a stray bullet can hit my sleeping child, or where the police kill innocent people in their own front yards.  

I don't think the neighborhoods of Riverside and San Marco fit this description.  

Yeah you are right, San Marco isnt bad Riverside is a bit spotty though.

if you're worried about crime, it can happen anywhere...in fact, downtown is statistically the safest neighborhood in Jax.

[DeadGirlsDontDance]

Sorry but the surrounding neighborhoods are not very desirable in my opinion.  I don't want to live in a place where a stray bullet can hit my sleeping child, or where the police kill innocent people in their own front yards.  

I don't think the neighborhoods of Riverside and San Marco fit this description.  

Yeah you are right, San Marco isnt bad Riverside is a bit spotty though.

if you're worried about crime, it can happen anywhere...in fact, downtown is statistically the safest neighborhood in Jax.

Why wouldn't downtown be safe? There's nobody there. No people, no crime.

[JC]

Sorry but the surrounding neighborhoods are not very desirable in my opinion.  I don't want to live in a place where a stray bullet can hit my sleeping child, or where the police kill innocent people in their own front yards.  

I don't think the neighborhoods of Riverside and San Marco fit this description.  

Yeah you are right, San Marco isnt bad Riverside is a bit spotty though.

if you're worried about crime, it can happen anywhere...in fact, downtown is statistically the safest neighborhood in Jax.

What are you calling downtown?

[fieldafm]

Sorry but the surrounding neighborhoods are not very desirable in my opinion.  I don't want to live in a place where a stray bullet can hit my sleeping child, or where the police kill innocent people in their own front yards.

[fieldafm]

I believe all make up the "core" so I tend not to try an isolate the central Northbank.  How does the pricing of the central Northbank compare with Riverside or San Marco?

I would say favorable.

Say, you're looking to buy a loft.  Churchwell would be comparable to Chelsea as for as pricing... but the location of the two are really polar opposites of each other. 

If you're looking at renting in an apartment community then Villas at St Johns compares favorably with leasing rates at the Carling or 11E.  But again, you step out the front door at Villas and you have a grocery store, a beautifal park, and restaurants and nightlife... compared to the Carling where you walk out to fac an empty lot and historical buildings in disrepair. 

Again, I would be all for living downtown if the price matched up to the amenities the neighborhood offered. 

[JC]

Carling and 11E dont even have 3br apartments!

[tufsu1]

once again I cite my own downtown home...

I have a 3 bdr townhome with a garage in  community that includes a pocket park, clubhouse, and pool....Winn Dixie is less than 2 blocks away and there are over 10 restaurants open at night within 6 blocks of where I live.

There's also the Sprinfield dog park (3 blocks), the Riverwalk (5 blocks), Main St pocket park (3 blocks), the Library/Hemming Plaza (4 blocks), the arena/ballpark (6 blocks) all within walking distance of my house.

[thelakelander]

I believe all make up the "core" so I tend not to try an isolate the central Northbank.  How does the pricing of the central Northbank compare with Riverside or San Marco?

I would say favorable.

Say, you're looking to buy a loft.  Churchwell would be comparable to Chelsea as for as pricing... but the location of the two are really polar opposites of each other.  

If you're looking at renting in an apartment community then Villas at St Johns compares favorably with leasing rates at the Carling or 11E.  But again, you step out the front door at Villas and you have a grocery store, a beautifal park, and restaurants and nightlife... compared to the Carling where you walk out to fac an empty lot and historical buildings in disrepair.  

Again, I would be all for living downtown if the price matched up to the amenities the neighborhood offered.  

I view Riverside and Five Points as a part of the urban core.  I actually view them as being more "urban" than the Northbank.  While the Northbank may have greater building density (so do a few of our industrial parks), it still lacks many elements that combine to make up a vibrant pedestrian scale atmosphere.   By the same token, I believe if we address the mass transit situation, one could live in a place like Riverside or Brooklyn, enjoy the urban lifestyle and still take advantage of the Northbank's assets.  With the transit issue in place, it won't really matter what the Northbank's land values are.  By expanding the "urban" footprint, you expand the housing and pricing opportunities for those seeking to live the urban lifestyle.

[fieldafm]

By expanding the "urban" footprint, you expand the housing and pricing opportunities for those seeking to live the urban lifestyle.

I would agree with that statement.

Tufsu, you live in one of the few housing developments that offers a decent alternative downtown(I considered a townhome their as well)... but I have several friends that have left Berkman, 11E and The Strand b/c their experience just did not match up to their expectations of urban living.  On a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate your downtown living experience thus far? 

I'm beginning to see Lake's point more and more that the future of our urban center(maybe downtown should be called the center) is directly tied to the connectivity with the surrounding urban neighborhoods that have been cut off from the center over the last 20 years.

[tufsu1]

On a 1-10 scale, I would rate downtown living a 7...as mentioned above, there is a multitude of things going on...that said, it seemed on the cusp of exploding when I moved here in 2006...but then the real estate market and the economy collapsed.

I also agree with Lake that we need to start thinking of the whole urban core (I'm calling it InTown Jax for now)....one of the best things about living downtown is the easy access to Springfield, 5 Points, Riverside, and San Marco.

[gridsketch]

The idea behind the core is to focus limited resources in a concentrated area like the Laura Street from the Landing to Hemming Plaza. Let's not dilute the idea of "the core". Yes, Riverside and the rest are currently more urban right now but let us get downtown that way too. At the last Urban Jacksonville Live weekly podcast at the Five Points Theater, someone mentioned the need for a grocery and a Walgreen's downtown. If we can figure out what it will take for Publix to move downtown we'll get more residents too.

[thelakelander]

^That idea in and of itself will fail. At no point in the Northbank's history has it ever been a self sustaining entity with no to limited connections with the urban core neighborhoods surrounding it.  There is no reason to believe what hasn't worked in nearly two centuries will work now. 

The next urban core Publix will be in San Marco. There will be no Publix in the Northbank anytime soon.  I heard this from their CEO myself at a presentation MJ did for the LEDC (Lakeland Economic Development Council) a few years back.  The market is simply not there and there's already a full sized Winn-Dixie in operation. 

While a Walgreens may be a viable option, such a store will have better success on a corridor like State & Union where it can pull thousands of "urban core" residents and pass by traffic, as opposed to the couple of people on Laura between the Landing and Hemming.

With this said, I'm not saying that DVI should not apply "their" limited resources in a concentrated area of DT.  What I am saying is that we need to look at things from a holistic viewpoint and better utilize our existing resources and income coming in.  DVI and other entities need to better educate and coordinate themselves on what's being proposed outside (and in) their borders by other public entities.  One of the best things that DVI can do that is free is to vocally support some of the transit initiatives being discussed and planned locally, considering that the Northbank (Laura Street included) will be one of the places that benefits from them the most.

If this can be done, a discovery will be made that we can stretch out our limited resources further than originally imagined.  Thus, in the same time period, we can end up with a vibrant small compact Northbank core (DVI's concentrated effort), directly connected to surrounding vibrant urban core neighborhoods with an urban quality of life asset that enables residents to get around without the use of a car (overall better utilization of existing citywide resources).

[tufsu1]

At the last Urban Jacksonville Live weekly podcast at the Five Points Theater, someone mentioned the need for a grocery and a Walgreen's downtown. If we can figure out what it will take for Publix to move downtown we'll get more residents too.

once again, WE ALREADY HAVE A GROCERY STORE DOWNTOWN!!

[JeffreyS]

At the last Urban Jacksonville Live weekly podcast at the Five Points Theater, someone mentioned the need for a grocery and a Walgreen's downtown. If we can figure out what it will take for Publix to move downtown we'll get more residents too.

once again, WE ALREADY HAVE A GROCERY STORE DOWNTOWN!!

And it really is a self perpetuating myth. I have heard people pass it along asking how can people live there if downtown does not have a grocery store. 

For those of you wondering what we are talking about it is Winn Dixie the home town chain and the one downtown is nicer than it used to be.