Comments on the Shooting of Kiko Battles.

[Springfielder]

We're saying the same thing, so in this, we're in agreement. I'm just saying the the specifics of the condition of the sidewalk would have been part of the SAO investigation and would certainly be part of any in Federal probe into a civil rights violation

[Lunican]

I remember using Google Streetview when this was originally discussed to check the sidewalks. They were not at all contiguous. I don't remember the exact street location now though.

[ChriswUfGator]

We're saying the same thing, so in this, we're in agreement. I'm just saying the the specifics of the condition of the sidewalk would have been part of the SAO investigation and would certainly be part of any in Federal probe into a civil rights violation

Well, the civil rights act is generally civilly enforced in these situations, under section 1983. Which I believe is being done, as they have sued JSO. However, the SAO investigation, and JSO's "Review Board" comprised of other cops, are both a total joke and everyone knows it. If there was some random paving stone that someone threw into a vacant yard, Corey wouldn't have a problem calling it a sidewalk.

I happen to lean strongly towards doing what other municipalities have done, and having these issued governed by a true independent review board, not a "board" that is entirely comprised of all cops who determine the fate of other cops. JSO's "board" has literally, in the entirety of its existence, never determined a single time that a shooting wasn't justified.

And this is the same board, FYI, that routinely labels police-involved deaths "self-inflicted" to avoid paying civil damages. I'd really love to see someone shoot and kill themselves...9 times...in the back. That must be some magic trick indeed!

[Springfielder]

I remember using Google Streetview when this was originally discussed to check the sidewalks. They were not at all contiguous. I don't remember the exact street location now though.

If memory serves me, it was around the 18th and Laura

[Springfielder]

The review board doesn't determine anything other than policy/procedures. It's only the SAO that decides if a shooting was justified or not. So a review compiled of citizens would then have to replace the SAO from the equation.

[ChriswUfGator]

Chris, did you visit the scene at the time?   StephenDare!, what witness testimony have you heard personally?  Did either of you attend the Response to Resistance hearing, which contrary to StephenDare!'s claim, is open to the public?  

We all know the answers.  This is a censored and biased forum.  There is no exchange of ideas to be had here.  Go to another forum.

I drive by there all the time. Of course I looked, there were missing sidewalks. Google earth has been updated since that time, no doubt, but at the time I also remember looking at that and it clearly showed missing sidewalks.

As far as the forum goes, this isn't a public meeting, it's a privately owned website. If you don't like the people running it, go start your own. FWIW, I don't think it's biased, they just have a lot of trolls around here. That guy obviously only joined here just to screw with Stephen, he has a whopping 20 posts, all of them talking about Stephen being a jerkwad.

Removing that kind of content isn't "censorship" it's just necessary to keep the place running. If they let every moronic post like that stay, this place would turn into the hell that is Jacksonville.com and I'd have to quit coming here and reading anything because it'd be too irritating.

[BridgeTroll]

Let the courts decide.  If Kiko's relatives filed suit against JSO then let the court decide.  Sounds to me like both sides have a case... Let the courts decide already.

[Springfielder]

The courts will decide. However, there's nothing wrong with it being discussed, I find it interesting.

[ChriswUfGator]

The review board doesn't determine anything other than policy/procedures. It's only the SAO that decides if a shooting was justified or not. So a review compiled of citizens would then have to replace the SAO from the equation.

SAO could do their thing separately if they wanted. They're the SAO, they have the right to investigate and prosecute crimes within their circuit. You can't really get rid of that, it's technically their constitutional job description. But the JSO "board" could definitely go, it's completely non-objective and represents a total waste of taxpayer money.

Moreover, an independent review board would help prevent repeat occurrences of this kind of situation, by holding officers to reasonable standards, and would be a useful publicity tool. Everyone knows the current setup is grossly unfair and represents a fox guarding the henhouse. Couldn't hurt to remove that black eye from the equation. If, as we've been told all along, JSO is indeed acting properly, then there should be no problem for anyone.

[Springfielder]

On that, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think it's a good idea to have people who are not trained in the field to judge. I know that many want a civilian review board, and I understand their reasoning...don't agree with it, but understand it. I also feel that the review board isn't always as kind to the officers that are sitting before them.

[ChriswUfGator]

Let the courts decide.  If Kiko's relatives filed suit against JSO then let the court decide.  Sounds to me like both sides have a case... Let the courts decide already.

I don't think that discussing this on a message board is going to stop a judge from moving the case forward. I don't see how discussing something online is impeding the movement of the wheels of justice.

Moreover, civil settlements are generally confidential. Odds are, we'll never hear about it. One more reason why I think a citizen's review board is a wonderful idea. Government owes the public a legitimate explanation and response when things like this occur, and under our current setup, none is being provided.

[sheclown]

What sidewalks are there, are hazardous and not maintained.  There are stretches of land without any sidewalks at all.

Here's a wider view of the first pic.



If I get a chance, I'll go by and take a photo of the sidewalk options, but...trust me... they are few.

[NotNow]

We're saying the same thing, so in this, we're in agreement. I'm just saying the the specifics of the condition of the sidewalk would have been part of the SAO investigation and would certainly be part of any in Federal probe into a civil rights violation

Well, the civil rights act is generally civilly enforced in these situations, under section 1983. Which I believe is being done, as they have sued JSO. However, the SAO investigation, and JSO's "Review Board" comprised of other cops, are both a total joke and everyone knows it. If there was some random paving stone that someone threw into a vacant yard, Corey wouldn't have a problem calling it a sidewalk.

I happen to lean strongly towards doing what other municipalities have done, and having these issued governed by a true independent review board, not a "board" that is entirely comprised of all cops who determine the fate of other cops. JSO's "board" has literally, in the entirety of its existence, never determined a single time that a shooting wasn't justified.

And this is the same board, FYI, that routinely labels police-involved deaths "self-inflicted" to avoid paying civil damages. I'd really love to see someone shoot and kill themselves...9 times...in the back. That must be some magic trick indeed!

This is, like most of the statements you have posted here , untrue.  The SAO investigation is independent of the JSO and determines whether a police involved shooting is within the law.  If you don't like how the SAO is doing their job then you can make a complaint to the FBI.  You should know this if you are really a lawyer.

The JSO review is strictly to assess if a police involved shooting is within JSO Policies, which are more strict than state law.  The Sheriff, and only the Sheriff, can apply administrative penalties upon an Officer (suspension or dismissal).   The board has no authority to and does not "label" any death "self inflicted".  What are you referring to?  Or are you just making it up as you go along?  You obviously have no idea of how police shootings are investigated.  You are speaking out of bias and not from facts.  Use that legal education and do some research before making such false statements. 

Other cities (not most, as you allege) have developed a "citizen review" that makes recommendations to an appointed Police Chief, not a constitutional Officer.  These are subject to the same politics and vagaries as other city "commissions" and are commonly used as political sledgehammers instead of investigative tools.  

The JSO Review board has recommended discipline many times, including dismissal, and the Sheriff has acted on those recommendations.  Why don't you do some research before making erroneous statements?   You see, facts are important.

When will the legal profession have citizen review of their actions?

I'll repeat myself.  Had any of you bothered to actually go to the scene, or even attend the review board, you would have seen physical evidence and heard actual testimony of witnesses.  The facts were quite clear when observed and "personal opinion" and "rumor" were removed.  

And, if you really believe that the stop that day was "unconstitutional", then you should offer to represent the family.  It is obvious that when an infraction is directly observed by an Officer that he has a right to detain.  What law school did you go to?

[NotNow]

Are you stating that the image that you provided is the place where the two men were forced to walk in the street because the sidewalk was not adequate?  What is that exact address?

[sheclown]

No, what I am stating is that the sidewalks, in that area, are in disrepair, if they exist at all.  As far as the exact location of the shooting, I don't know.  I believe it was posted on this forum a year ago. I believe it began in one location and ended in another, but perhaps a link to the earlier thread would be in order here.

I would imagine that the memorial is at least representative of the shooting, if not the location of the shooting itself (but that is only an assumption). 

The memorial has been intact since the day of the shooting.  It is quite easy to find. West 18th Street between Main and Pearl, south side of the road.