A Step Away from Skid Row Behavior Downtown

[gatorback]

Wrong and wronger! Dont take away from me and my purchase for consumption in my $559k condo and other tax payers to make yourself feel good.  Rather start ticketing the open container tax payers 50.00. If they don't pay arrest them and work release them to build the Lrt or brt or whatever else we need built. Deal or no deal.

[jason_contentdg]

Let's not forget that the Winn-Dixie is about to undergo a major renovation and expansion project.  It should be a pretty decent place once they pour a couple million into it.

ahh yes.. the "million" dollar renovation....since this is Jacksonville.. I won't be holding my breath... will this be like the renovation of the Landing or the Laura St. Trio or the Barnett Bank building?  Ok.. I'm sure it'll be GREAT!  bet after the renovation they'll have an even bigger single/40oz beer section, perhaps a lottery/cigarette lounge and I'm sure it'll have the great customer non-service that they're known for. 

Yeah, can't wait.

completely uncalled for....perhaps you should visit the store before making comments....they have done a whole lot over the last year to clean up the store and make it safe and friendly.....and the $3 million renovation starts this week!

I visit the store, but only when I have to.   The service still sucks, and I won't be going back until they finish the remodeling.  But they can make the store look like the Taj Mahal, but if the same "enthusiastic" people work there...then the truly need renovation didn't take place. 

[Lunican]

It seems like this is just creating another law because the first law is not being enforced. It's already illegal to drink on the street, but that hasn't stopped it.

[gatorback]

Correct.  Just arrest and work release.  Would you love to see tax payers in bright orange smocks working for you instead of you working for them?

[Ocklawaha]

This goes way beyond a simple drink of alcohol. If the missions and soup kitchens are all downtown, then the street people will stay in downtown. The environment that attracts you and I also attracts them. It's pretty, plenty of clean bathrooms, plenty of shelter from a storm, fountains, places to bathe, places to dress and sleep, nice air conditioned buildings, and lots of people to beg from. What more could a person within that culture want? Beer, singles or no beer or wine, you won't change these things anytime soon. Homeless people have friends too, some who work, some who have cars, and frankly, some who are wealthy (perhaps from vice and crime), will we stop cars entering downtown to do baggage searches for booze? If we don't then the stuff will just be hauled to the market. If the market is in Hemming Plaza, then that's where it will show up. Simple really. These people do not live complex lives but they are very good at getting the few things they want or need to survive.

This whole problem is a sickness of both the society and the individual. Joe Lunchbox over at Metropolitan Stadium, shouldn't have to pay for the sins of the homeless while watching an afternoon NFL game. Mr. Cosmo, in a downtown high-rise, should be able to offer that foreign investor his choice of adult beverages without breaking the law. We need to look at the whole problem and study ways other places have addressed it. Endless arrests and bashing heads - prohibition of any type DOESN'T WORK! Ask yourself honestly, have you ever been drunk? just buzzed? Smoked pot? Prohibition REALLY worked for you didn't it?

We fix this through social services, mental and medical assistance. In South Florida many of the homeless do work, they sell a little paper called "THE HOMELESS VOICE", on the street corners. The paper is the voice of Social Services and outreach missions. Each homeless man or woman gets a chance at a real job, a nice reflective vest and a supply of papers to start their day. As Stephen wrote in another post, "Teach these people to fish for themselves." The same is true for prostitution, we could address all of these problems with some sweeping changes to our basic approach. Taking away the bottle for a few hours will do nothing at all.

Sure glad I don't have an opinion on this...

Ocklawaha

[walter]

completely uncalled for....perhaps you should visit the store before making comments....they have done a whole lot over the last year to clean up the store and make it safe and friendly.....and the $3 million renovation starts this week!

oh I assure you its completely called for, unfortunately I HAVE to go there at times.  I sure don't want to but its unavoidable and as for its "safe and friendly" atmosphere....that was funny!   yeah it remids me of the Rutherford Inn too!

[Matt]

once again, hobos ruin life for everyone else.

it seems like, instead of making more laws they should just enforce the ones we already have, and if that doesnt work, make the penalties worse.

not to get on a side note, but in Deutschland, they will take away your licence for drunk driving instead of wasting their time with morons. (this applies because they should not make more laws, but stricter penalties)

[tufsu1]

completely uncalled for....perhaps you should visit the store before making comments....they have done a whole lot over the last year to clean up the store and make it safe and friendly.....and the $3 million renovation starts this week!

oh I assure you its completely called for, unfortunately I HAVE to go there at times.  I sure don't want to but its unavoidable and as for its "safe and friendly" atmosphere....that was funny!   yeah it remids me of the Rutherford Inn too!

I shop there regularly and have had no problems at all.....if its so bad, ask to speak to the GM...his name is Juan....I think you'll be pleasnatly surprised

[Steve]

This is tough one - I see what the point is, but I was thinking the same thing about the Winn-Dixie.  What if I want to pick up a 12 pack on the way to the stadium?

To me, this would apply better with single consumption bottles.  Other than the "white trash bash" parties that we had in college, has anyone ever bought a 40 for anything positive?

I would say let's enforce public drunkeness laws - let's not create new laws because we can't enforce our old ones.

[Ocklawaha]

Colombia? YES! A street plan that works.

Okay, quit laughing. Yes, Colombia does have a system that works. A few years ago, while in downtown Bogota, there were horrible riots. A military police APC came flying around the corner and they spotted me in the crowd. (It's easy, what weighs 265 pounds and is 6' tall in South America? = only a Gringo) The soldiers called out, "get out of here, come on! let's go, students and communists." Needless to say, we didn't need any more coaxing. We scrambled out of there and in the morning, the place looked like Berlin after WWII! Wow!

Today, just a few years later, my teen daughters can walk downtown in Medellin at midnight. They tackled the job and today the crime rate is 1/2 or less of Jacksonville's. This was done by enforcing the laws with a tough hand. Offering betterment and social programs to the poor and homeless. One of the most successful was opened every 3 months, for only a few hours, at first. They brought in teachers and they taught the poor all manner of handicrafts. The meetings became more and more popular and soon they had their own office and complex. Today, daily crafts and skills are taught, the homeless sell their handiwork to sponsor their new home. They get free medical and mental care and a small room to call their own. The people get all sorts of small items made by the hands of the former street people. The City gets safe and clean streets and people come in from outside the area to learn or even go after a high school degree (Colombian high school degree is equal to 2 years AA degree in a US university or college, US State Dept Information).

Perhaps the poor backward THIRD WORLD has the answer for us highly advanced creatures, Si Como No?

Ocklawaha

[gatorback]

How did the mayor or NYC fix the problems the big apple had when Julianni took office?  He started arresting people for discarding cigarette butts. (Has FL ever did this? http://www.tobacco.org/articles/state/FL/?top_only=1 )

The taxpayers there figured, "Wow, if they arrest me for littering, what will they do if I commit a real crime."  Same here.  Let's just do it. 

Arrest the public drinking tax payers, work release them and have them build that ghost rail from timbuktu to the wild kindom.  I'm sure ridership would at least grow by 1.  I've never been to timbuktu.

[midnightblackrx]

rather than creating new laws, lets start enforcing the ones we have. Not to get off subject but this is way too common in legislature from local to federal govt; creating new laws when there are already too many laws not being enforced.

[downtownparks]

I think that Jerry is also playing into the hands of Redman here too. Redman has stated that he believes the biggest problem downtown is booze. Now, he can try to push the legislation though, but point at Jerry as the reason.

[Jerry Moran]

I am disappointed by some of the silly responses this posting has received.  We have a very serious problem here in Downtown Jacksonville and it needs to be addressed.

Limiting the hours of alcohol sales for off premises consumption has been my idea for over two years.  Susanne Jenkins was not interested in it.  Don Redman is the new City Councilman in my district, and, of course, I approached him to put the proposal back on the burner.  My poll indicates support for some form of the ordinance from on-high on down.  Many communities around the country that have similar problems as we have taken action.  We can do that too, but have to work under the constraints of the Florida Statutes. 

Suggesting that I am “playing into the hands of Redman” belies an unfounded prejudice.  I have found Don Redman, and his assistant, Scott Wilson, to be intelligent, reasonable, and quite available.  They return telephone calls and emails.  Ultimately, you can always stop by Don’s barbershop on Belfort Road and chat with him.  He won’t force you into a flat top.   And if you venture a visit, you would find that Redman is not against drinking or entertainment.  That’s something the Folio Weekly propagated to create controversy, as the publication is known to do.  Don decided to become an athlete later in life, and as a 52 year old myself, I can tell you that intense exercise and alcohol does not mix very well.  His abstinence has nothing to do with morals, but rather the ability to run and ride a bicycle competitively.

Here is the ordinance proposal I wrote up and distributed at Jay Jabor’s town meeting last Tuesday.  If you have a better idea, I urge you to get up off your numb blogging butts and get it done.


A Proposal for an Ordinance to Regulate the Sale of Alcoholic Beverages for Off Premises Consumption in the Northbank of Jacksonville Florida.

Definitions

Alcoholic Beverage:  Any beverage containing more than one half of one percent alcohol by volume.

Northbank:  Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office Zone 1, Sections A-1, A-2, and A-3.  This area is bound by Interstate 95 on the west, and the St. Johns River on the east; mostly State Street on the north, and the St. Johns River on the south. (See reverse side of this page.)

Intent
The generally poor social and physical condition of the Northbank of Downtown Jacksonville, Florida, can in great part be attributed to the illegal public consumption of alcoholic beverages on the streets and sidewalks at all hours of the day.  This ordinance will seek to reduce alcohol related crime and nuisance by prohibiting the sale for off premises consumption of all alcoholic beverages between the hours of 2 AM and 5 PM in the Northbank area.  This ordinance will not affect bars and restaurants that sell alcoholic beverages for on premises consumption. All beverage venders will be prohibited from selling alcoholic beverages “to go” between the hours of 2 AM and 5 PM. A two year review and sunset will be included in this ordinance.

History

The public consumption of alcoholic beverages in Duval County is illegal, except at certain sanctioned events located in certain areas. This is commonly known as the “Open Container Law”. Any sale of alcoholic beverages in Duval County is currently prohibited at all venues (restaurants, bars, retail stores)  between the hours of 2 AM and 7 AM daily.

Multiple social service agencies, and homeless shelters are located on the Northbank.  In this respect, the Northbank is unlike any other area of Duval County. This has caused the Northbank to become a magnet for transients, alcohol and drug addicts, mentally ill persons, and criminal vagrants.  Many of these individuals spend the bulk of their time on the public streets and in city parks.  Most all share a common denominator, and that is the desire for alcoholic beverages.  Since these persons have no source of legitimate income, they are prone to commit property crimes, and panhandle citizens in order to get money to buy the alcohol they so desperately want. As these street people do not have a home, or prefer to live on the street, they have no choice but to consume alcoholic beverages in public.  This very often leads to disorderly conduct and intoxication, property crimes, littering, trespass, and camping offenses to be committed by them.  The effect this has on the Northbank is to give the area an unattractive and somewhat dangerous “skid row” character. For this very reason, many residents of Duval County are afraid to venture downtown.  This is counter productive to downtown development.

The Northbank’s public drinking problem could be remedied by rigid enforcement of existing “open container” ordinances by the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office.  That is, public drinkers would be arrested.  The reality is that the JSO does not have the resources or staff to adequately patrol the Northbank.  With looming City budget cuts, the JSO will be less able to protect the Northbank.  In this near emergency environment, and in consideration of our limited resources, the most efficient way to control alcohol consumption is at the source of supply, and that would be the retailer.

A reasonable approach to controlling illegal public drinking in the Northbank would be to prohibit the sale of “singles” or chilled beverages, or to limit how a beverage could be packaged, such as banning brown can bags and straws.  Unfortunately, the only device State Law provides a locality with for controlling the sale of alcoholic beverages is a local option for the hours when alcohol can be sold. That being said, the City can only regulate the sale of alcoholic beverages on the Northbank with an ordinance that contains the following elements:

Prohibit the sale of alcoholic beverages for off premises consumption on the Northbank between the hours of 2 AM and 5 PM.  A two year review and sunset for this ordinance will be in place.

This ordinance will prevent an individual from purchasing a beverage “to go”.  The intended effect of this ordinance is to improve the image of, and quality of life in Jacksonville’s Northbank Neighborhood.

[thelakelander]

Jerry, what are some of the cities our size that have passed similiar ordinances in their downtowns?