LaVilla: 'A story of fits and starts'

[Bativac]

Oh, Jacksonville. I am always amazed (though I shouldn't be anymore) about the city's excitement when it comes to tearing down buildings. That and the Jaguars are two things the city government really gets behind.

The sad thing is how many local residents are all for tearing down "old stuff." I wish there was a bigger focus on Jacksonville history in school. I had no idea there were buildings still standing (until they tore 'em down) that were around during the Spanish-American War. I'm 31 years old, I was born and raised here, and I never knew about that kind of historical stuff. It's like to survive, these old buildings have to hide and hope somebody buys them that really wants to maintain them, and that the city doesn't decide they need the land.

Jaxson hit the nail on the head. Have something "lined up" before you tear down a 100 year old building. Don't tear it down just to tear it down. I worry that future children of Jacksonville will look to architectural gems like the Times-Union building as historic artifacts.

What a shame.

[mppappas]

Jax looks like a bigger, or at least more vibrant, city in the 1950's than today.  It proves that having tall buildings doesn't mean squat if nothing is happening on the ground.  If we had more concern for historic low rises than modern high rises, we would likely be better off than now.

Why does Pappas think adding residential would be so deterimental?  I don't get it?  Does he only want more office buildings?  

Ted Pappas isn't going to win architect of the year in my book anytime soon.  I think he just likes getting his next commission, not whether it fits in to LaVilla, Downtown, an urban environment, or whatever.  My guess is he doesn't due residential (but, clearly, he does do office buildings) so why promote it  

Please allow me to defend my father's statements. But first, let me agree with the statement that downtown Jacksonville was a more vibrant city in the 1950's. And anyone who knows Ted Pappas would know that he has championed downtown redevelopment for years, and would be the first to argue that large high-rise buildings kill the pedestrian nature of a small city. Urban sprawl is an unfortunate result of having cheap, plentiful land, which was Jacksonville in the late 1970's-1990's.

One of the main issues that impacted LaVilla was the dissection of the neighborhood by I-95 and the development of State and Union Streets into one-way raceways, cutting off the pedestrian connection to Springfield. One can certainly argue against the plan to raze LaVilla back in the 1990's. But a plan was developed that largely included commercial development in LaVilla and had the residential development slated for Brooklyn.

Ted does not think residential is detrimental (not deterimental), but the plan for backing up new developments to I-95 didn't seem to make a lot of sense to him. Regarding his experience as a residential architect, he does do (not due) residential work, and has extensive experience at all levels including affordable, community redevelopment. Ted's firm was the lead architect on the Brentwood redevelopment project; designed some of the first student housing at Edward Waters College and UNF, and has an extensive portfolio of high end private residential projects, including many award winning designs.

His involvement in responding to the City's plan for LaVilla involved not only his architectural studio doing design work, but also his own personal investment in the community as a result of the State of Florida's taking of his Historic Riverside Avenue offices by eminent domain to widen Riverside Avenue and make way for the redevelopment of Brooklyn. Unfortunately, things don't always happen as quickly or like we may have hoped. But you can dig in and get your hands dirty and work within the constraints of reality. Or you can spend your days anonymously posting to discussion pages, criticizing what others do without knowing all the facts.

Please keep your architect of the year award. I'm sure your experiences and commitment to this City make it a prestigious honor, but we will continue to do our work and provide quality architectural services and unique design solutions.

Mark Pappas

[billy]

Ted  has been a pioneer and long time advocate of historic preservation and adaptive reuse in Jacksonville.

[Captain Zissou]

There is no critical mass in La Villa. Leave it alone, focus on downtown and growing 1 place at a time. Jax is good at tearing up neighborhoods, but piss poor at replacing them with anything other than parking lots or grass fields. Did the same thing around the Arena, leveled all the homes that now house more parking lots.

Agreed.  I don't think we need to spend a dime of public money on La Villa for a while.  Once the courthouse is completed, let private money develop around it.  Otherwise, focus on the Laura street Corridor until it's absolutely bursting with activity, then move out one block at a time.  If Bay Street Station takes off, great, but until then just make sure the infill is pedestrian friendly and smart.

[tufsu1]

Not that I'm a huge fan of the ballfields/sports complex idea proposed for LaVilla....but Boston has the Commons and New York has Central Park...and they're considered pedestrian friendly.

Creating a large central park space isn't such a bad idea...that's what many of us want to see Klutho Park become.

[mppappas]

Thanks for the welcome, Stephen.

I do agree that downtown revitalization has been a long and often fruitless endeavor. I would say that in addition to poor planning, other factors worked against downtown. The growth of suburbia and suburban office parks with cookie cutter housing developments and millions of square feet of available office space developed during the past 25 years or so certainly impacted the social and economic fabric of the downtown core. There is also a political reality inherent to democracy that one administration's plans might not make the cut with the next group, thus killing any real synergy that had formed as a result of thoughtful dialogue.

Regarding my response, I don't get the McCain reference. I did respond to the 'ideas'. And I responded to someone who publically attacked my father's motives as someone concerned only with "getting his next commission" and then tried to define the practice areas of his firm - incorrectly. Those were both false statements and worthy of a response. I won't apologize for correcting someones bad grammar or spelling if they are poorly throwing stones in my general direction. I can certainly handle criticism and an alternative opinion, but I won't stand by while someone paints a false picture

I live in a world where a person's reputation is a valued asset that one protects when it is being wrongly challenged. Which really brings to light the irony of your statement regarding the anonymity of some posters who are trying to "protect their personal lives from the dangers of global communication". I guess it's OK for these people to post whatever they want about others, just so long as they can hide behind the keyboard. 

MPP

[mppappas]

Stephen:

No problem whatsoever. All is well with the 'Dynamite' reference. I believe his first vision for LaVilla was a golf course so that out of town visitors could drive through a green belt.

Regarding LaVilla, the development group of the first 2 medical buildings are exploring options for a third. I know this isn't the type of development that gets people excited, but it has been very well received with some of Jacksonville's top docs setting up locations there for it's central location and easy access. Ted was dragged through the mud over the second phase of that development as it involved moving the Brewster Hospital, a concept in the city's original RFP for LaVilla developers. Ted was lambasted by some politicians as the villain, but in the end, it brought back medical care to downtown that didn't involve going to a hospital.

I believe that an RFP was recently issued to resurrect the failed restaurant across from the Ritz. That is a classic case of everything going wrong - concept, planning, oversight. I have heard that the lot to west of the Signet center is in some sort of litigation with the city over development issues. Not a whole lot that has bubbled to the surface, but I suspect that plans are shaping up to coincide with the opening of the courthouse. Again, this will probably not be the type of development people get excited about - law offices, sandwhich shops, etc. Let's hope for a economic recovery in the near future and perhaps Brooklyn might come back to life. In my opinion, the plans for mixed use developments there makes a lot of sense.

I drive down the Brooklyn section of Park Street every day, and can really envision the vibrancy of Riverside and 5 Points extending into this area.

I will dig around to see if I can find the Park and King concepts.

MPP

[vicupstate]

Also contributing to the issues are the different ideas of what LaVilla should be. Though Austin and others hoped for residential and commercial businesses, Pappas insists that bringing housing back to the neighborhood would be a mistake.

"That's going in the wrong direction," he said. "Let's not make LaVilla another Riverside or another Springfield."

Mr Pappas, would you say that your father was misquoted?  Based on your post, can we assume your father would be supportive of bringing residential projects to LaVilla, provided they did not border the I-95 right of way? 

Prior to building a project in Springfield, a partner and myself wanted to do a small residential project in LaVilla.  The city was not particularly enthused. 

If we were to revisit that in the future, might your father be an ally?

[JaxNative68]

Why does Pappas think adding residential would be so deterimental?  I don't get it?  Does he only want more office buildings? 

because he and a few partners own a lot of the land around his two medical office buildings and he wants to continue to expand on his mini office park cash cow with city incentives.

[tufsu1]

Why does Pappas think adding residential would be so deterimental?  I don't get it?  Does he only want more office buildings? 

because he and a few partners own a lot of the land around his two medical office buildings and he wants to continue to expand on his mini office park cash cow with city incentives.

seems to me he and his partners have invested in LaVilla....not many others can say that right now.

[JaxNative68]

My statement was a tongue in cheek statement poking fun at the folks making statements about Ted and his involvements with the LaVilla area without knowing the facts and not meant to be taken seriously, but I realized after posting it, it read quite the opposite.  My apologies up front.  I personally know and like Ted Pappas, and Mark as well.

[tufsu1]

sorry JaxNative...my bad

[JaxNative68]

no need for you to apologize for my lack of clarity

[thelakelander]

Not that I'm a huge fan of the ballfields/sports complex idea proposed for LaVilla....but Boston has the Commons and New York has Central Park...and they're considered pedestrian friendly.

Creating a large central park space isn't such a bad idea...that's what many of us want to see Klutho Park become.

That's what Klutho Park was originally intended to be and was.  For some reason, we've turned our back to our actual "central park" that already includes everything you mentioned above.  Anyway, the simple act of kicking an entire neighborhood out of their homes and destroying a century old community because people who live outside of it believe its time to start over from scratch is what makes LaVilla's redevelopment a colossal failure.

[Debbie Thompson]

Savannah nearly did become LaVilla.  During the urban redevelopment craze a few decades ago, urban planners were all for knocking down the neglected old houses downtown and building new buildings. Fortunately, a group of fiery preservationists organized and won the day. 

Lake, from your post, in my minds eye, I can see LaVilla, Durkeeville and Springfield surrounding a vital Klutho Park. No speedway Union and State, and no FSCJ and bus station cutting off Springfield from LaVilla and downtown.  Long before now, with that ambiance, all those homes would have been restored, or on the way to it. Grants could have helped poorer families fix up their homes.  We would have a vibrant downtown historic district that was second to none. 

“For all sad words of tongue and pen, The saddest are these, 'It might have been'.”  John Greenleaf Whittier