Landing bill moves forward without preservation funds, but mayor may veto

[kells904]

kells904...have you been there lately...a paint job is sorely needed

No, I haven't been there lately.  Right now I live within driving distance of Norfolk's Waterside, where, for some idiot reason, they've decided to close down its biggest money makers. Anyway, everytime i've been to the landing in the last few years, I haven't noticed the need for paint; I noticed the need for more people.  If you paint it, they will NOT come.

[JeffreyS]

We can stop arguing the why's and what the Landing will do next. The story is the city made a deal and should honor it.
I am really surprised people here are wonder why the Landing would want to be paid what is due.

[tufsu1]

We can stop arguing the why's and what the Landing will do next. The story is the city made a deal and should honor it.

It is hardly ever that simple...keep in mind there have been several amendments to the original deal.

As for bringing more people Kells....the place does just fine on weekends and special events (as the JEDC info. attests)....and the recent street closures for the roundabout haven't seemed to have a big effect.

I would suggest that more people will come when the reputation of the Landing (and dowtown) begins to change...national retailers can help that, but I'm willing to bet that parking won't be their only issue....guessing that facility upkeep will also be a concern.

[JeffreyS]

Well you have to start somewhere Tufsu and parking is fine with me. Dedicated parking is not subjective you have it or you don't. A much more clear cut issue than is the paint fresh enough.

[tufsu1]

Well you have to start somewhere Tufsu and parking is fine with me. Dedicated parking is not subjective you have it or you don't. A much more clear cut issue than is the paint fresh enough.

it isn't like the Landing doesn't have dedicated parking....remember, they already have over 300 spaces in the adjacent lot.

Which begs these questions....

Are those spaces already "dedicated" already to current users?
Have they offered those spaces to prosepctive tenants before?

[JeffreyS]

If you are saying that the city does not have the obligation then they should not pay or find a good reason to pay.  If they are already on the hook then they should pay.  The city so far to my knowledge has not denied owing the parking to the Landing. So the what will the Landing  do or should have done is not relevant.

[thelakelander]

TUFSU, The Landing has over 125k sf of retail. When you get time, count the number of spaces in a Walmart, Target or similar etail center parking lot and compare. That should give you your answer. Once I'm able to get on a computer, I'll go into greater detail.

[Wacca Pilatka]

kells904...have you been there lately...a paint job is sorely needed

No, I haven't been there lately.  Right now I live within driving distance of Norfolk's Waterside, where, for some idiot reason, they've decided to close down its biggest money makers. Anyway, everytime i've been to the landing in the last few years, I haven't noticed the need for paint; I noticed the need for more people.  If you paint it, they will NOT come.

Kells, I live in Grafton and am exceptionally confused at what's going on with Waterside.  Before all these closures, Waterside was (as Lake has pointed out) a fine example of how the Landing could improve with adjacent dedicated parking.

Personally, I like the Landing and look forward to going to several businesses there when I am in town.  I do notice that maintenance is not what it once was, but not to the degree that it would keep me from going there.  I still think it's an attractive facility with great views (however dated it may be and despite its poor integration with the rest of downtown).  When I bring people with me to Jacksonville, as I usually do, they've liked it too, though I tend to get dismayed at the empty spaces and nostalgic for its eariler days.

[tufsu1]

TUFSU, The Landing has over 125k sf of retail. When you get time, count the number of spaces in a Walmart, Target or similar etail center parking lot and compare. That should give you your answer. Once I'm able to get on a computer, I'll go into greater detail.

I know Lake, but

1. Wal-Mart and Target have ridiculous amounst of parking (even for Black Friday)
2. I didn't think we were talking about opening a Wal-Mart or Target in the Landing (although for better or worse, that would bring the crowds)

[Miss Fixit]

A Target in the Landing?  That's one of the best ideas I've heard for a while! 

I'm only half kidding - I spend most of my time downtown, in Springfield, San Marco and Riverside/Avondale but NEVER go to the Landing - nothing there worth visiting.  But a downtown Target would be a draw......

[thelakelander]

TUFSU, The Landing has over 125k sf of retail. When you get time, count the number of spaces in a Walmart, Target or similar retail center parking lot and compare. That should give you your answer. Once I'm able to get on a computer, I'll go into greater detail.

I know Lake, but

1. Wal-Mart and Target have ridiculous amounst of parking (even for Black Friday)
2. I didn't think we were talking about opening a Wal-Mart or Target in the Landing (although for better or worse, that would bring the crowds)

Now that I'm in front of a computer, I can elaborate in more detail.  300 spaces are significantly limited for 125k sf of specialty retail and dining.

Don't worry about Target or Walmart, those places have well over 1,000 spaces for themselves only.  Cheesecake Factory and PF Changs at SJTC most likely eat up 300 of the thousands of spaces at the SJTC.  Here, Sleiman is only asking for 300 to bring the center's total up to 600.  

However, it seems like some of you keep ignoring the fact that this has been an issue since Day 1, going back to the center's opening in the late 1980s.  I understand the need to validate excuses for not keeping our word but at some point its only right to live up to a promise the city made to bring the center here in the first place.  

All the arguments against (at least on this site) are built upon feelings, theories and guess work instead of facts.  These are things that have kept us circling the wagons for decades with nothing to show but failure as the result.  If not, we would not be having this conversation today.  Its time to listen to people who specialize in this business for a change instead of people who mean well, but are novices regarding how the retail industry really works.

[CS Foltz]

lake...............dead on target! Not to mention that Johnny has money stashed.....like about $80 Million plus! Of course we can't use that since hiz honer don't see the lite!

[Jim]

Let's go ahead and assume that The Landing gets its dedicated parking.  I can already see Sleiman's next argument coming:  "I'm not going to reconfigure The Landing since I don't own the land that it sits on". 

To be fair, he's stated this for years.  He wanted to move forward with a $250 million renovation with the condition that the city fulfill it's parking obligation and sell the land under the Landing.

I don't know about you but if I were going to move forward with a $250 million dollar project, I'd want adequate parking and the land I'm building on.  

[thelakelander]

People in the retail industry, who play with their own money, keep saying dedicated parking is an issue.  Look around and nearly every major retail center has adequate parking or located in an area with significant foot traffic.  The problem is people who are novices in this industry, yet in a decision making position, keep "assuming" and "visualizing" Rouse, Sleiman, whoever's next argument.  So instead, we keep investing money on scattered, poorly thoughtout projects and end up shocked when things don't turn out like "assumed." Let's provide the dedicated parking and put the ball in the professional's court for a change.

[tufsu1]

lake...............dead on target! Not to mention that Johnny has money stashed.....like about $80 Million plus! Of course we can't use that since hiz honer don't see the lite!

I was waiting for you to bring this up....its called a rainy day fund, and most local and state governments have them...in fact, Panama City (with less than 50,000 residents) has over $15 million in reserves....also, in the non-profit world, it is recommended to have 6 months to 1 year in reserves.

In any case, the City's deficit for FY 2011 is now thought to be about $22 million (versus the $60+ million you've been mentioning)....and the Mayor has permission to access about $13 milion of the reserves...so the remaining deficit will only be $9 million.