Elements of Urbanism: Mobile

[I-10east]

The last major office tower constructed in DT Jacksonville (northbank, excluding Riverside) was the BofA tower in 1990.

Northbank, excluding Riverside? Make more stipulations like west of the Modis Bldg, and east of AT&T Tower. LOL, Just kidding.

[I-10east]

what the hell is that second tall building that looks similar to the Battlehouse Tower (or am I seeing things...it is not even listed in skyscraperpage.com)?

It's the Renaissance Riverview Plaza Hotel. I checked on emporis, and it's only 28 floors. It don't have an official height total yet, but I'm sure that it's far from being taller than BOA, it's probably in the 400-500 ft range even with the cheating spire.

[thelakelander]

That hotel tower is a building that was renovated after the RSA Tower was completed.  During the renovation, they threw a spire on top of it.

[vicupstate]

It was pristine compared to what we have locally.

Jax has some of the worst maintained parks in the Southern US, that I have seen.  The nicests ones get a C+ and the worst get an 'F' and there are many of those.  When you see the funding the city has for Parks, is it obviously cause and effect. 

[tufsu1]

Another city that's clearly screwing everything up! I don't see parking meters everywhere, and they're making their downtown 2-way streets? Sheeeesh...someone needs to write them and let them know what horrible mistakes they're making!

guess you missed this part of the quote in the story...

"Parking in downtown Mobile is convenient and generally affordable. On-street parking is available for many of downtown’s businesses and attractions. On certain streets, parking is free, with a two hour limit. The remaining metered parking is $1.00/hour"

btw...Jax. is also converting some 1-way streets to 2-way...Bay Street was first, then Independent, and now Laura.

[tufsu1]

ok true....but also note that some streets, where there is a demand for parking, are $1.00 per hour....I have no problem with having 2-hour no meter parking in certain areas (just like it is right now in parts of the Cathedral district in downtown Jax.)....but other areas will likely still reuire some type of fee.

[Ocklawaha]

ok true....but also note that some streets, where there is a demand for parking, are $1.00 per hour....I have no problem with having 2-hour no meter parking in certain areas (just like it is right now in parts of the Cathedral district in downtown Jax.)....but other areas will likely still reuire some type of fee.

Why the hell would ANY area REQUIRE "some type of (parking) fee?"  Rejecting hourly PARKING FEE'S would grow downtown business and industry opportunities, while meters only discourage it.  Nobody can convince me of a need for meter's, smart meters, genius meters, etc. when the parking division LOSES MONEY!  Make those same spaces free with hourly, two hour, enforcement and we'd still receive the fine revenue - WITHOUT the capital costs of meters and their maintenance.

Does a $25.00 fine for overstaying a meter deter you from staying long in a meeting any more then a $25.00 fine for overstaying a two hour free zone?  These people are not thinking...


OCKLAWAHA

[vicupstate]

There is no requirement for a fee, there IS a requirement for reasonable time limits.  Witness San Marco and Five Points for example.  To get even more basic, the only real requirement is that prime on-street parking not be taken by all-day users (workers), so that spaces are still available for short term users (shoppers).

Greenville has NO METERS period. Several garages are free in the evenings and weekends as well. Most spots are 2 hours, but several are for 15,30 and 60 minutes.  There appears to be logic behind the spots that get less than 2 hours.  For example, a number of the spots near banks are 15 and 30 minutes. There are no meters, but you will get a ticket is you exceed the posted limit for your space.  It's all controlled by hand-held devices that the 'meter patrol' uses. They complete their route punching in every tag number they see. Once the same tag has been keyed a second time, it will check the total duration since the first time.   The device will print a ticket once a tag number has exceeded the posted limit.  Because of the manual process involved, the 'offender' will gets a few gratis minutes nearly 100 % of the time.  

M-F during business hours is actually the easiest time to find a spot.  The evenings and weekends are more difficult as the DT is a popular restaurant/entertainment destination during those times, and the time restrictions are NOT enforced at all after 5 or on weekends.

[thelakelander]

ok true....but also note that some streets, where there is a demand for parking, are $1.00 per hour....I have no problem with having 2-hour no meter parking in certain areas (just like it is right now in parts of the Cathedral district in downtown Jax.)....but other areas will likely still reuire some type of fee.

The Mobile meter situation looked very similar to the meter situations in Cleveland, Savannah and Raleigh.  It appeared that at one point, all streets had meters.  However, in an effort to make it easier on the retailers/restaurants operating within downtown, in recent years meters had been removed in areas where on-street parking was needed and in demand the most.  My guess is that more meters will be taken down in the future, considering the streets with free on-street parking tend to be more vibrant than those with metered parking.  Perhaps, someone with a little history of Mobile can come and confirm?

[heights unknown]

Mobile seems to love spires; I guess they love long pointed things in that city...if you know what I mean.  Anyhoo, for such a small city they have a couple of great looking towers. The way they now look would be the same for Jax if we suddenly constructed a 1,200 foot tower; downtown would really look off kilter.

"HU"

[Jason]

Great tour Lake.

Is it just me or is more and more of our membership slowly turning into cynics?  For some reason I feel like the responses to these tours are becomming nothing more than "that city is better than Jax" bash fests.

Come on guys!  We're all here for a reason and regardless of what other cities are doing Jax still has MANY MANY MANY more benefits/pluses than negatives.

[tufsu1]

There is no requirement for a fee, there IS a requirement for reasonable time limits.  Witness San Marco and Five Points for example.  To get even more basic, the only real requirement is that prime on-street parking not be taken by all-day users (workers), so that spaces are still available for short term users (shoppers).

thanks Vic...this is what I've been trying to say for months, but haven't done a good job of explaining it.

btw, I was in Greenville last year...saw a parking enforcement officer on a modern golf-cart-looking thing write 2 tickets near the downtown Jimmy Johns.

[brainstormer]

Jason is right.  We need to get back to the "learning from" part of this series.  So here are a few things I noticed after reading the article.

1.  Mobile has embraced a preservation attitude when it comes to historic structures and it shows.  I love the intricate design on so many porches and awnings.  It reminds me of places like the Row House in Riverside, the Carling downtown and a few other historic buildings around the core.  One of our problems in Jacksonville is that our historic structures are so scattered, due to lots of demolition, that it is hard to think of a truly historic area.  Adams street and Laura street might be the best options within the core.  
2.  Generally speaking, I would say a lot of the architecture in Mobile is different and unique.  Yes they love their spires, but even their new construction has a twist to it that sets their buildings apart.  Compare their new RSA tower to the Fidelity complex.  
3.  Their inner city parks have a lot of green grass and traditional trees, not palms.  Where in downtown Jax can you find a nice shady tree surrounded by grass to have a picnic or read a book?  The small fountain in their square is beautiful and adds a nice touch to a public space.
4.  Imagine a convention center with those huge windows like Mobile's looking out onto our St. Johns?  We need to better embrace the natural beauty of the St. Johns when we build a new convention center and when we approve development of the Shipyards site.
5.  I noticed a lot of unique signage for businesses.  We've discussed this before on another thread.  Chamblin's uptown should be used as the model for creating an aesthetic and vibrant retail district.  They have sidewalk seating, an awning and fun signage.  Imagine all of Laura street filled with creative shops and restaurants.
6.  I like the idea of a parking card or some sort of pass to make parking easier whether it is in a garage or on the street.

I don't think I'm ready to jump in the car and move to Mobile, but it does look like a great place to spend a weekend.

[tufsu1]

3.  Their inner city parks have a lot of green grass and traditional trees, not palms.  Where in downtown Jax can you find a nice shady tree surrounded by grass to have a picnic or read a book?  The small fountain in their square is beautiful and adds a nice touch to a public space.

Treeaty Oak Park on the southbank...and whether people like it or not, the Main St pocket park will soon qualify...they planted oak trees that after about 5 years should provide plenty of shade.

[thelakelander]

The major difference between those parks in DT Mobile and the two DT Jax examples are the Jax parks are isolated. By isolated, I mean they don't integrate at all with the surrounding urban environment. On the other hand, the Mobile examples are surrounded by pedestrian oriented uses ( dining, retail, theaters, etc.) that open up into them.  For proper park planning, it would do us good to implement the "Power of 10" concept.