Carter envisions entertainment park at Shipyards Downtown

[fieldafm]

What do you think the Shipyards best use would be Lake?

I do very much agree about the Landing, but you know more than anyone that unless the city allows Sleiman to own the adjacent Hogan street land area to build a parking garage... its a moot point.

[thelakelander]

I think it would be much easier to get the city to resolve the Landing issues than to subsidize and make a competitive project, with a couple of amusement park rides, work right down the street.

Imo, the best use for the Shipyards site would be mixed use.  If I were in charge of calling the shots, I'd go ahead and extend an urban street grid into the site, while carving out and developing sufficient public space.  Thinking vertically, from that point, instead of going make or break on one large risky development, you could have several decent sized parcels for a variety of things.

As for specific uses, I think its too early to pin point at this time.  Instead, I'd focus on things that have the potential to be long term economic generators for an urban community over things overly focused on tourism.

[sheclown]

http://www.aqua.org/directions.html

Baltimore's aquarium is on the water -- I remember when it was built  -- everyone thought wtf? Why in that crappy place.

Now...

What is the Aquarium's economic impact on the region?

The Aquarium is Maryland’s largest paid tourist attraction, and the economic impact of Aquarium visitors on the State of Maryland has been tremendous. A study by the Maryland Department of Economic and Employment Development determined that the Aquarium annually generates nearly $220 million in revenues, 2,000 jobs, and $6.8 million in State and local taxes.

The Aquarium's success has contributed to the development of more than 3,000 new hotel rooms in Baltimore.

How and when did the Aquarium get its start?

The Aquarium actually "began" in the mid-1970s when Baltimore Mayor William Donald Schaefer and Commissioner of Housing and Community Development Robert C. Embry conceived and championed the idea of an aquarium as a vital component of Baltimore's overall Inner Harbor redevelopment.

In 1976, Baltimore City residents voted for the Aquarium on a bond referendum, and groundbreaking took place on August 8, 1978.

In November of 1979, the United States Congress voted it a "National" Aquarium.

The grand opening was on August 8, 1981.

I believe it really contributed to the Chesapeake's cleanup. And it certainly "made" the Inner Harbor.

[strider]

Something else, doesn't Baltimore have it's convention center like right there at the inner harbor as well? Seems like draws like an aquarium (or something of like ilk) and a convention center mixed in with mixed use developements is what makes the inner harbor.  And then look at Fells Point......really too far of a walk from the inner harbor, but still sort of positioned like Springfield. Though Springfield will always be missing the deep water!

[sheclown]

About Baltimore's convention center:

History

As was the case with Harborplace, which opened in 1980; the Maryland Science Center, which opened in 1976; and the National Aquarium in Baltimore, which opened in 1981, the Convention Center was intended to be a catalyst for tourism, an important part of the City's post-manufacturing economic development plans. An Abell Foundation report in June, 2005 describes the Convention Center as having been "built as an economic development tool to attract to Baltimore conventions, trade shows, and meetings that would leave in the city millions of dollars spent on lodging, food, entertainment, and other services." (Controversy, 2005, p. 3) A report on economic development in the area, entitled Subsidizing the Low Road: Economic Development in Baltimore, states that "public and non-profit facilities such as the Maryland Science Center, the World Trade Center, the Convention Center, and the National Aquarium," (Subsidizing, 2002, p. 11) were part of then-mayor Schaefer's "focus on real estate, retailing and tourism sectors," (p. 10) as areas for growth, as well as his utilization of "'public/private partnerships' to pursue economic development." (p. 11)

During the next two decades, due in part to the success of the Convention Center and the other attractions, Oriole Park at Camden Yards, Sports Legends Museum at Camden Yards, M&T Bank Stadium, Power Plant Live!, and the Reginald F. Lewis Museum of Maryland African-American History, have joined the area, creating a ten-block plus entertainment and cultural destination at Baltimore's Inner Harbor, further increasing tourist dollars flowing into the region.

A June 2005 Greater Baltimore Committee report on tourism in Baltimore illustrates the importance of tourism in the current Baltimore region's economy:

    Hospitality and tourism and the convention industry are vital components of the region’s economy. According to the Baltimore Area Convention and Visitors Association (BACVA), spending from domestic travelers in 2002 was $8.476 billion statewide; $2.8 billion in Baltimore alone. This spending supported $719 million in state and local taxes while providing over 44,000 regional jobs.(Voices, 2005)

One convention that has been reported by the Baltimore Business Journal to have had a major economic impact in 2002-2005 for Baltimore is Otakon, a convention that focuses on Anime and other facets of East Asian culture. The convention has resided in the Baltimore Convention Center since 1999.

The Convention Center is also viewed as important to the recent development on Baltimore's West Side. According to Ronald M. Kreitner, executive director of West Side Renaissance Inc., the "Convention Center will help contribute to the success of the theatres and the retail," referring to the development of the France-Merrick Performing Arts Center/Hippodrome Theatre, as well as new retail ventures in the area. (Renaissance, 2003)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltimore_Convention_Center

[ChriswUfGator]

I think it would be much easier to get the city to resolve the Landing issues than to subsidize and make a competitive project, with a couple of amusement park rides, work right down the street.

Imo, the best use for the Shipyards site would be mixed use.  If I were in charge of calling the shots, I'd go ahead and extend an urban street grid into the site, while carving out and developing sufficient public space.  Thinking vertically, from that point, instead of going make or break on one large risky development, you could have several decent sized parcels for a variety of things.

As for specific uses, I think its too early to pin point at this time.  Instead, I'd focus on things that have the potential to be long term economic generators for an urban community over things overly focused on tourism.

What? Come on, that's not thinking like a true Jacksontuckian!

We have a loooooong history of stunting our own development by taking over prime waterfront property for nonsensical and ridiculous uses. We already have a waterfront jail, a waterfront courthouse, a waterfront city government building, a waterfront school board, and until just recently a waterfront power plant. I mean seriously, why break the trend now? Let's take over that prime spot and put up a waterfront bus station, or maybe a waterfront sewage plant, just so people don't get confused. Waterfront homeless shelter? Maybe a waterfront trash dump?

Just thinking creatively here...

[CS Foltz]

How about something along the lines of "River Walk" in San Antonio? Only more family oriented but along the same general venue?

[Ocklawaha]

What? Come on, that's not thinking like a true Jacksontuckian!

We have a loooooong history of stunting our own development by taking over prime waterfront property for nonsensical and ridiculous uses. We already have a waterfront jail, a waterfront courthouse, a waterfront city government building, a waterfront school board, and until just recently a waterfront power plant. I mean seriously, why break the trend now? Let's take over that prime spot and put up a waterfront bus station, or maybe a waterfront sewage plant, just so people don't get confused. Waterfront homeless shelter? Maybe a waterfront trash dump?

Just thinking creatively here...

Perhaps without intent, Chris has managed to critique Jacksontuckian's and at the same time make a statement far beyond Jacksontuckey bordering on Neanderthal. 

Would one consider an internaitonal airport and a sewage plant in the same sentence?
How about a railroad station?
A FREEway?
Parking Garage?

If our citizens can't see beyond this and understand "a bus station" as a vital part of a modern urban fabric as well as one of the front doors of the community, then we need more help then any of us thought.

Chris, I may be tooling around downtown in a brand new Silver Eagle 45' motor coach in the next few weeks, you really should get with me and i'll take you for an educational ride... REALLY!

Frankly I should extend this offer to anyone who would like to experience the new Silver Eagle coaches.


OCKLAWAHA

[ChriswUfGator]

Oh I get that it's necessary, Ock! But so's a courthouse, a jail, a powerplant, a school board, etc...

That doesn't make them the best use of prime waterfront property. That was my only point. I'm not saying we don't need a bus station, I was just poking some fun at our long local history of siting otherwise appropriate and necessary uses in completely inappropriate locations. Especially up and down both sides of the river.

Your new coach sounds fantastic, Ock, those things are like rolling mansions now. Congrats on the trip, and I'd take a ride with you anytime.

[sheclown]

me too!  MJ Road Trip!

[Overstreet]

........We have a loooooong history of stunting our own development by taking over prime waterfront property for nonsensical and ridiculous uses. We already have a waterfront jail, a waterfront courthouse, a waterfront city government building, a waterfront school board, and until just recently a waterfront power plant. .......

Waterfront used to be the lower side of town across the country.  Remeber the ship yards and docks covered both sides of the river from the Acosta Bridge to Arlington and beyond. Much of that uses started a long time ago when the city was primarily a transportation hub and industrial city.  The gentrification takes a little longer. Remember they are trying. The big and small ship yards are gone. They moved city hall to Heming plaza...sort of. They took down the outdated power plant. They are moving the courthouse. They tore down the jail annex. Those functions are slowly moving away from the river.

[fieldafm]

I think it would be much easier to get the city to resolve the Landing issues than to subsidize and make a competitive project, with a couple of amusement park rides, work right down the street.

Imo, the best use for the Shipyards site would be mixed use.  If I were in charge of calling the shots, I'd go ahead and extend an urban street grid into the site, while carving out and developing sufficient public space.  Thinking vertically, from that point, instead of going make or break on one large risky development, you could have several decent sized parcels for a variety of things.

As for specific uses, I think its too early to pin point at this time.  Instead, I'd focus on things that have the potential to be long term economic generators for an urban community over things overly focused on tourism.

How big is the Shipyards site, and how many/what size parcels can be split up in this footprint?

Aritcle today about Sleiman and parking again...

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-04-08/story/mayor%E2%80%99s-office-balks-landing-owner%E2%80%99s-plea-parking-subsidy

[thelakelander]

Around 44 acres and about a city block deep.  Its nice to see Sleiman make a move on that parking lot.  Imo, its better to use and improve what's already in place then turning another block into parking.

[Captain Zissou]

Sleiman said the move will open up space for outdoor cafes. He said he would renovate the Landing so it has storefront entrances, rather than the solid wall that now faces the area with the statue.

He doesn't have an estimate for what that work would cost and said it's all contingent on getting more parking.

"For this to be successful, I've got to get the parking," he said. "If we go like we're going now, it's not going to be good."

This is great news and some progressive (while obvious to most of us) thinking.  Richard Clark sounds like the only guy with his head on straight in the Mayor's office about this.

[copperfiend]

The inside of the Landing is pretty depressing right now. Outside entrances are a must.