Inside the Jacksonville Terminal

Ocklawaha · January 19, 2009, 01:07:08 AM

I actually think we'd trump Washington within just a few years of Amtrak Expansion, Commuter Rail, Transit Center-AKA: UNION TERMINAL, new convention center and some decent planning. DC gets the subway and Maryland or VRE commute trains in addition to Amtrak. But we'd get more Amtrak ROUTES, with the potential of more trains in the distant future...Plus Florida regional Rail (Al La Rail California), Commuter Rail, LRT-Streetcar, Skyway. Then toss in the freeway close, all new development around the station, new hotels, retail and offices, and we'd blow most of the other cities away. The shame is we have Peyton, with a distinct lack of vision...

Never have so many, owed so few, to one so little... (sorry Sir Winston)

OCKLAWAHA

tufsu1 · January 19, 2009, 08:04:47 AM

Ock...I highly doubt (even in your wildest dreams) that our terminal could ever be more than Union Station in D.C.....right now, its the second largest (ridership) Amtrak station in the country.

thelakelander · January 19, 2009, 08:43:27 AM

Its a pretty busy place. Not only with Amtrak, but also the metro and two commuter rail systems. I would be happy if the Jax Terminal could attract 1/4 of the traffic generated by Union Station.

copperfiend · January 19, 2009, 09:46:51 AM

Quote from: thelakelander on January 18, 2009, 06:44:06 PM
I spent some time exploring Washington, DC's Union Station earlier today. Its a place served by the Metro (heavy rail subway), Amtrak (Northeast Corridor), VRE (commuter rail) and MARC (Commuter Rail). It also has a multiple level shopping mall area with a food court and underground movie theater. If we can find a way to get the convention center out of our terminal, I think ours can be just as successful.

I spent some time there last year. It really is a great place. I have taken an Amtrak to Union Station and then jumped on the Metro to get to my hotel.

Matt · January 19, 2009, 03:34:29 PM

well we could be huge... we are the only way into south florida by (amtrack) rail, no?

tufsu1 · January 19, 2009, 03:42:52 PM

yes....we are the Amtrak gateway to the Florida peninsula....

But DC serves as an end point for the Acela northeast high speed line corridor...and with Philly, serves as a hub for Amtrak routes to points west (like Chicago).

We will never compete with that!

GatorShane · January 19, 2009, 04:04:01 PM

My father worked with the man who owned building before city bought it, He gave us a tour inside when it was still abandoned. Simply incredible. IMO, one of Jacksonvilles most astounding peices of architecture.

Ocklawaha · January 19, 2009, 09:39:14 PM

Quote from: tufsu1 on January 19, 2009, 08:04:47 AM
Ock...I highly doubt (even in your wildest dreams) that our terminal could ever be more than Union Station in D.C.....right now, its the second largest (ridership) Amtrak station in the country.

I don't. Did you know back when we were a far - far - smaller town and Washington was the nerve center of the free world - we had the busiest railroad station in the world... NOT THE USA, THE WORLD!

Philadelphia is the gateway to routes west? Not really. There is the old PENNSY to Pittsburgh and beyond. Then over in DC there was the former Chessie - aka: C&O, Baltimore and Ohio, Western Maryland, not to mention routes west via Virginia, on the old Norfolk Western and the Southern. Washington west and names like Cavilier, Powhattan Arrow, National Limited, Capitol Limited, Sportsman, Royal Blue... a bunch.

Now could WE compete with that? YES. We can send them west via:

Jacksonville - Valdosta - Macon - Atlanta - Cincinnati - where ever.
Jacksonville - Waycross - Manchester - Birmingham
Jacksonville - Waycross - Manchester - Atlanta - Nashville
Jacksonville - Waycross - Valdosta - Montgomery - Birmingham - Nashville
Jacksonville - Waycross - Columbus - Birmingham - Memphis
Jacksonville - Lake City - Valdosta - Atlanta -
Jacksonville - Tallahassee - Dothan - Montgomery - Birmingham - Cairo - Chicago
Jacksonville - Pensacola - New Orleans - Houston

Florida:

Jacksonville - Daytona - West Palm - Miami
Jacksonville - Orlando - Tampa
Jacksonville - Ocala - Tampa
Jacksonville - Ocala - Miami
Jacksonville - Orlando - Sarasota
Jacksonville - Ocala - Ft. Myers
Jacksonville - Orlando/Ocala - Tampa - St. Petersburg

Yes, when it comes to Amtrak routes, and pure passenger appeal we CAN beat Washington. Station close to equal. Weather - Jacksonville wins.

oops - left out our North-South routes.

OCKLAWAHA

tufsu1 · January 19, 2009, 10:14:34 PM

Ock...get real....check the Amtrak routes....trains from Philly and DC go thru Ohio on their way to Chicago...and from there to St. Louis and the west coast!

Also, Amtrak's HQ are at Union Station in DC.

As with the highway system, Jax and Florida are pretty much at the edge, not the center...so what makes you think that they would move train routes to Jax?

Ocklawaha · January 20, 2009, 01:37:45 AM

This hangs in the condo in Colombia, the title is "All Roads Lead To Jacksonville".

Don't have to move a thing, Jacksonville is the ONLY rail gateway to Florida and the Southern most City in the USA with direct West and West Coast (as in Oklahoma - Texas - California etc...) rail lines.

I wrote a history on Jacksonville Terminal, as well as the passenger train routes in Florida back in 1984, and am now considering a new "JACKSONVILLE" book. My statements here are not dreams or fiction but facts of history. We can regain what we once had, and with a bit of vision, we could have it in abundance. No argument here - just vision that I hope is contagious.

It was stated by the USDOT back in the early 1960's that the last remaining passenger train in the USA would run down the east coast to Florida. That the last remaining railroads in the country would radiate from Jacksonville, and that we would someday lock up the last station.

Things have certainly changed since then, and the railroads are back with a vengence. It may not be "Amtrak" in it's final form, but whatever it is, Jacksonville is positioned on the rail map to capture the most traffic South of Washington DC - a position we have nearly always held. With return of our many different Chicago-Cincinnati-Louisville-Detroit-Cleveland-St. Louis-Memphis-Kansas City-New Orleans routes, and the return of a direct Norfolk - Jax and Charlotte - Jax route. Calculate all of these end points with the more traditional Florida trains ending in New York-Boston-Washington-Atlanta-Miami-Tampa-St. Petersburg-Orlando-Sarasota/Venice-Ft. Myers/Naples. Now consider which city that EVERY SINGLE ONE of these trains MUST pass through (hint: JAX), Plus the planning going on right now in DC for the 5 trains per route "Amtrak Florida" plan, (there is NO I-75 on the rails) we'd be STUPID for not jumping on this.

TO HELL WITH THE PRIME OSBOURNE, we are talking about hundreds - maybe even thousands of high paying transportation jobs right in our downtown core. Get that damned concrete circus tent pitched someplace else besides the middle of the rail yard, for the one time busiest train station on earth. (see the Florida Boom 1920's)

Unless Jacksonville is completely blind, totally stupid, hasn't one transportation thinker in public office or led by an Orangutan Gang of Tasmanian red haired Pleistocene period Neanderthal's, this is a ripe plum - peeled and served to us on a silver platter.

I'm not promising we'll pass DC in a couple of years. All I'm saying is we have a better shot at a top rank as THE South's rail passenger transportation hub then any place else. As that corridor inches toward Jacksonville, (also in the plans), think about where America plays. It sure as hell isn't Prince Georges County Maryland! So planning on seeing Mickey? Shamu? Miami Beach? Ybor City? Space Center? or headed North for business in Philadelphia? New York? Portland? Richmond? Cleveland? Your royal coach awaits you through the tunnel to gate D - Track Number 7 - JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL.

OCKLAWAHA
Jacksonville Terminal averaged 15 MILLION passenger per year from 1919 until 1974!

jbovinette · February 10, 2009, 08:05:14 AM

Does anyone have internal pictures of the Jacksonville Terminal back in it's prime? I'm looking for pictures of the boarding area. I'm doing a model of it and I am going into great detail with it. Or Does anyone have like a floor plan of the Terminal?

Ocklawaha · February 10, 2009, 08:55:07 AM

You wil find copies of such things as this in several places, The Ed Ball Building downtown has the building plans for the city. The Library downtown has teh 4Th floor Photo Collection, my book "Rails 'Neath the Palms" has a chapter on Jacksonville Terminal. I also have a slightly crumpled 11x17 floor plan reduction I'd be willing to dig out and share with a fellow foamer.

In Colombia, I have some HO scale equipment, all set in Palatka - Ocala circa 1960. This was the historic Ocklawaha Valley Railroad and I modeled it in the "WHAT IF" it had survived past 1923. I have a website for it at: http://ocklawahavalley.ning.com/

If your interested in the prototype as well as photos and some hidden bits on Jacksonville Terminal, see my blog: http://jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com/

HIGH GREENS !

OCKLAWAHA

jbovinette · February 10, 2009, 01:17:34 PM

Hey OCKLAWAHA,

Thanks for the info. Really appreciate it. Im also doing an HO scale model of Jacksonville (well little bit of downtown) because space would be a little bit of a problem

I'm doing "what if" Jacksonville continued passenger rail and is Norfolk Southern and CSX hadn't formed. I have all my engines and they just need to be painted. They are being painted Atlantic Coast Line, Southern, Seaboard, and Florida East Coast Colors. They are modern locos but with new paint. They look really cool. Thanks for the info.

Ocklawaha · February 10, 2009, 02:06:58 PM

Very interesting whats the roster on the new Locomotives?

My stuff is pre-1955, EMD, ALCO, BALDWIN, FM on the connecting lines, and Pure BALDWIN on the Ocklawaha Valley, including some brass Centipedes (Hallmark) and a fleet of AS-16's and VO1000's, the only "weird engines" I have are 5 FM switchers that came from a hobby shop deal in OKC OK that I couldn't pass up. They WERE Santa Fe FM's and he couldn't give them away, so I offered $25 for the lot and he took it. BRAND NEW!

The REAL OV was one fo the rare shortlines to use new power, and was a loyal Baldwin Customer. My excuse is with the end of WWII and the surplus of FM (submarine) diesel mechanics, the OV got the lot of them for a song, and put them into service. The mechanics came from NS LEE FIELD in Green Cove Springs. (Well at least that is the story).

Are you going to stay with SCALE on the Jax Terminal? Wow, that is going to EAT a lot of space, I'd love to see the finished model. Please post a photo, or PM me here or at Jacksonville Transit Blog.

OCKLAWAHA

jbovinette · February 10, 2009, 06:56:58 PM

All of my engines are Athearn Locos. I have an EMD F59PHI, GE AC4400, GE "Dash" C44-9W, ALCO RS-3, EMD SW1000, EMD 150o, I dont know which ones Im going to paint what scheme yet. Some of the switchers will be painted in the last paint jobs that existed. I'm still looking for some passenger cars that look good but don't kill the budget. I'll post a pic when I start the project. I'm still gathering information of the Terminal.