Inside First Baptist Church Jacksonville

[buckethead]

Call him bitter, call him cynical, but darned if Watchdog doesn't run the most enlightening blog.

http://fbcjaxwatchdog.blogspot.com/

Crap like all of the backstabbing, doublespeak, and underhandedness of the First Baptist Church is part of the reason I'm a proud, cynical and jaded atheist. (Mind you, I was also raised Catholic, so that's about 90% of it right there.)

My name is buckethead and I'm a recovering cathaholic.

*group responds:* Welcome!

[RiversideLoki]

Did you give it up for Lent (permanently) like I did?

[Bill Ectric]

The pictures are beautiful.

I do think it's commendable that First Baptist operates debt free. As for the amount of property or money they have, that's all relative. Compared to some churches, FBC is poor; compared to others, they are rich. I don't think you can judge a church or a person by how much money they have or don't have.

I could never go to FBC due to certain beliefs they have, which I don't share. If I were to go to church at all, it would probably be Unitarian Universalist.

[Michele]

That is a loaded question PJ.  The church and its membership is involved in many things.  I'm not a member and can't speak to what FBC as a whole is in sponsorship of, but there are gobs of ministries, programs, and charities they provide.  Check out the website http://www.fbcjax.com/  and see for yourself.  Click the ministries, calendar, and missions tabs and you'll see the many things the church has to offer.  The missions trips sponsored by this church are huge and I've heard of LOTS of donation money being used to fund the trips and to help those far away.  They also work with other churches in the area (my church included) to combine forces for ministries and missions.

Churches, especially FBC, are in buisness to help people BUT the underlying message is to spread the word of God through giving that help.

Jason, I have been to their website, and I did look at the ministries page.  I see that they help people who are members of the church, and they travel the world to teach.  I do not see any city missions.

When The City Rescue Mission was founded, that is the homeless shelter that is around the corner from the church, FBCJ was very much involved in founding of it.  As a teen and college student, we would go and sing at Sunday night services that were held there, plus give a hand at dinner time on different nights.  Now I can't tell you about if the church is still involved with the mission, as I now live in Georgia, but back when I was going to church there, it was very much involved with providing funds, volunteers, etc to the mission.

[Andy]

First Baptist is neither the abominable monster some of you think, nor the epicenter of love that they would have us believe. I went there for years, and my parents still watch the services. It HAS turned a bit of a new leaf, it is more accepting than ever. But it's still got a lot of old fashioned members and a lot of people that were raised as racists/homophobes etc. That's not the structure's reason for being though, and in all of the services and meetings and musicals I have been a part of there, never once have I heard (nor would I ever expect to hear) anyone say "homosexuals/black people are the worst kinds of sinners who are going to hell, and also let's all hate them." Just because that element is there does not leave the church nonredeemable.

I think it's a more fair point to look at their works (ye mighty and despair) and note that their programs aren't doing all they can. I would think a church that could open a private school could open a staffed homeless shelter or a halfway house. I don't care if they minister to the people they help, so long as they help. (which, by the way, is what they WILL do, no matter what you think about 'pushing your religion' on people. Christians will/should minister because it is their 'calling.')

I know this is all slightly off topic but Ive got a lot of pent up frustration both in offense from FBC and defense of FBC.

[JaGoaT]

Hopefully they move out there permanently http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=549317

[jaxjaguar]

Doesn't sound like they're moving, just expanding. Looking back at the original tour posts, this would be a great entertainment complex. Sadly, we'll probably only see membership decline and the buildings be used less and less until funds from the baby boomers dry up. This campus is waaaay too large for them.

[thelakelander]

If membership downtown does decline and they eventually decide to part ways with a few buildings, it would seem FSCJ would be in position to create a cohesive urban traditional college campus in the core of the Northbank. So many of those buildings are designed for a cultural or educational oriented type of use.

[spuwho]

Actually, the 'Trey' I referred to is Trey Brunson. First Baptist has suffered from the decline of Downtown as much and more as any other institution down there, btw.

I think people speak from assumptions, when they talk about the mammoth organization---- rather than any real insight most of the time.

Agreed.

[spuwho]

If membership downtown does decline and they eventually decide to part ways with a few buildings, it would seem FSCJ would be in position to create a cohesive urban traditional college campus in the core of the Northbank. So many of those buildings are designed for a cultural or educational oriented type of use.

I have said it before, FBC Campus would make a fantastic urban university.

[finehoe]

...and with SSI she was able to get an apartment of her own.

Another 'taker' sucking off the government teat.

[FlaBoy]

If membership downtown does decline and they eventually decide to part ways with a few buildings, it would seem FSCJ would be in position to create a cohesive urban traditional college campus in the core of the Northbank. So many of those buildings are designed for a cultural or educational oriented type of use.

I have said it before, FBC Campus would make a fantastic urban university.

I honestly don't see a reason that those buildings during the day could not be used for classes and such even now.

[FlaBoy]

I have said it before, FBC Campus would make a fantastic urban university.

I honestly don't see a reason that those buildings during the day could not be used for classes and such even now.

Many of them are.  There is actually a pretty large academy there during the day, and the facility is in constant use.

You should check out the coffeeshop that just opened to the public in addition to the 900 seat cafeteria.

Is that the one on Laura that is kind of hidden by the block-looking exterior?

I know they have their school. I also know they have done a good job trying to allow public access to their garages as much as possible with potential liability that comes with that. They are much much better about that than other private companies/organizations in downtown.

[spuwho]

And the wealthy are undeserving of Christs message?

What about poor Zaccheus?

And where does the money come from to support the poor and homeless? More poor and more homeless, not likely.

Jesus had a wealthy dude in his gang, he was the despised tax collector Matthew.

While I am not a proponent of prosperity gospel, I dont think that is what FBC is pursuing.

Its about supporting the ministries they have today.

I dont hav e any bones in an argument about FBC as I am not affiliated with them, but judgement based on externalities will always come up short.

I highly encourage jlmann to request a tour of the church facilities and have them explain what they do behind the scenes.

Come back here and share what you learned, I would be interested in hearing feedback.

[ronchamblin]

I visited the FBC once, several years ago, to view a visiting choir, which was rumoured to be quite the thing.  I stayed for about fifteen minutes, as it was crowded.  I feel uncomfortable in crowds and churches, both tending to avoid the best thinking of which humankind is capable.

Some individuals convey their belief in a god by saying something like ... "You all need God".  Being an atheist, I would always use the word "god" as ... "there are millions of people who apparently believe in the existence of a god of some type."  When one uses the word "god" as if the entity actually exists, such as ... "And God said ... ", then one not only conveys one's belief in the existence of a god, but also, simply by the use of the phrase, a slight support is offered for the validity of the belief in the existence of a god for others, when there has been no evidence for the belief over the entire history of the world. 

One can imagine the existence of anything.  The sensible individual, of sober mind, will seek validation to support the reality of what is imagined.  Although one's imagination can contrive possibilities ... such as the existence of gods ... the validation of the possibility endures an eternal wait.  For the individuals gaining from beliefs in gods, whether they gain power, money, or spiritual comfort, there is little pressure to restrain the imagination. 

Meanwhile, as has been the case through thousands of years, the individuals who believe are comforted in their belief, even though the belief is without support from the senses.  What appears to be from the senses ...  as preached by church leaders ...  is only from the imagination ... and is without sound confirmation from any form of reality. 

However, just as one measures the good or bad consequences of a fantasy film upon the viewer; that is, as to whether the film positively or negatively impacts the mind of the viewer, one can ponder the ultimate impact upon an individual or a community, as rendered from the consequences of an established belief system such as Christianity.

Mental stability and comfort to the mind is a valuable state, sought in desperation by most at some time in their lives.  In desperation, many seek changes in partners, cities, homes, books, drugs, and belief systems promoting a particular religion or god.  For most, these prescriptions for mental sufferings are used only until stability is assured with some finality.

I ponder on occasion the ultimate effect ... subtle even ... on our city core .. and our entire city ... our community ... as rendered by the FBC, and other churches of course.  Enduring the flu this morning ... possibly affected by my consumption of a dose of NyQuill, I shall hesitate to engage the subject until I gain full sobriety.  I shall return with some further thoughts.  Meanwhile, does anyone have some thoughts on the subject?