Jacksonville-Miami rail project rejected

[thelakelander]

A request for federal stimulus package funding to pay for upgrades needed to allow passenger trains to use the Jacksonville-Miami line was rejected, according to the Florida Department of Transportation.

The requested $268 million would have been used to allow Amtrak passenger trains to use the Florida East Coast Railway line, thus connecting Florida east coast cities that do not receive Amtrak service through the current Miami-Tampa-Orlando-Jacksonville line, said Nazih K. Hadda, FDOT passenger rail development manager.

“We are going to continue to work with Amtrak to get this service,” said Hadda.

The state on Thursday received $1.25 billion to kick off a high-speed rail project linking Tampa and Orlando by 2014. Florida requested $2.5 billion for the Tampa-Orlando stretch and $30 million to begin the process of giving Orlando and Miami a similar service.

Federal Road Administration Administrator Joseph Szabo wrote in a Jan. 28 letter to FDOT that the proposed Jacksonville-Miami and Orlando-Miami project proposals “did not demonstrate that the project was sufficiently developed to receive funding for the proposed activities...”

The Jacksonville-Miami rail line project would have brought three daily round-trip services.

http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2010/01/25/daily46.html

[Lunican]

Hasn't FDOT been working on this for over a decade?

[reednavy]

Pardon my language, but this is f*cking bullsh*t. So this project wasn't "sufficietly developed enough", but oh, we can waste the money on a nonsense HSR line from Tamp to Orlando.

While this certainly doesn't put this project under, it takes a hit.

[thelakelander]

The feds did not fund more than 1/2 the original request of all that submitted applications.  My guess is the associated Sunrail HSR funding request must have been rejected to.  Nevertheless, there will be more funding opportunities.  In the meantime, Jax should push and claw for everything rail-related that it can.  That way we might not get left out in the cold again.

[stjr]

The requested $268 million would have been used to allow Amtrak passenger trains to use the Florida East Coast Railway line, thus connecting Florida east coast cities that do not receive Amtrak service through the current Miami-Tampa-Orlando-Jacksonville line, said Nazih K. Hadda, FDOT passenger rail development manager.

Let's see.  That would be equal to 1.66 Blanding/I-295 intersection "maybe" improvements by the same FDOT that asked for this money.  Again, where is leadership in establishing genuine, not political, priorities.

[heights unknown]

Doesn't surprise me.  I guess they think that a high speed rail line from Miami to Jax is really a rail line to nowhere; if that's the case, then the same applies to the Tampa to Orlando rail line; I'll bet no one rides it.

If they had approved the Jax to Miami line, there probably would have been more riders on the Jax to Miami than the Miami to Jax; don't think many in Miami have a "real" reason to go to Jax, but I think it would have been successful.

"HU"

[tufsu1]

The requested $268 million would have been used to allow Amtrak passenger trains to use the Florida East Coast Railway line, thus connecting Florida east coast cities that do not receive Amtrak service through the current Miami-Tampa-Orlando-Jacksonville line, said Nazih K. Hadda, FDOT passenger rail development manager.

Let's see.  That would be equal to 1.66 Blanding/I-295 intersection "maybe" improvements by the same FDOT that asked for this money.  Again, where is leadership in establishing genuine, not political, priorities.

don't even ask for comparable ridership on this route

[Ocklawaha]

Florida should be so lucky! If you want to ride this, and several other "Private" railroad's trains, you must go to Georgia.... The Progressive State!


Jax - Miami would bury the HSR ridership figures if the damn train ran at an average speed of 45 MPH!

Anybody think Ocklawaha and the MJ 5 are the only ones making noise about this? Check out The United Rail Passenger Alliance, a Jacksonville based NATIONAL lobby and research group:



Read the complete article here: http://www.unitedrail.org/2010/01/28/this-week-at-amtrak-2010-01-28/

Founded over three decades ago in 1976, URPA is a nationally known policy institute which focuses on solutions and plans for passenger rail systems in North America. Headquartered in Jacksonville, Florida, URPA has professional associates in Minnesota, California, Arizona, New Mexico, the District of Columbia, Texas, New York, and other cities. For more detailed information, along with a variety of position papers and other documents, visit the URPA web site at http://www.unitedrail.org.

URPA is not a membership organization, and does not accept funding from any outside sources.

1) To the surprise of no one, when political decisions are made, those decisions are not always based in reality. Today’s announcement from the White House on how the $8 billion pie for high speed rail is being carved up can be viewed as nothing more than a string of political decisions, but, with some good results.

Every region of the country gets a piece of the pie, but, surprisingly and, with a certain note of disappointment, the Chicago area received a rather small portion. Billions are needed to untangle the web of rail lines in and out of Chicago to make both passenger and freight trains move smoother and quicker. Illinois received only $1,102,000,000 for upgrading a line between Chicago and St. Louis. Minneapolis-Milwaukee-Chicago got another chunk of money â€" $823,000,000 â€" but not much of the money actually goes into Chicago-based infrastructure. On the east side of Chicago, the Chicago-Detroit line got $244,000,000 for stations and some signaling and infrastructure improvements.

Never really addressed were the core problems directly in and around Chicago, the nation’s largest rail hub.

Here in Florida, we received $1,250,000,000 which proves the point you shouldn’t look a gift high speed rail system in the mouth, but you really have to figure out how to feed it. Florida’s share of the spoils will pay for a hair less than half of the cost of building the redundant Orlando-Tampa high speed rail system, which the voters of Florida rejected in 2004 as too expensive.

So, now, the feds have given us half of the cost of the system, and we have to come up with a matching amount. The problem is, the State of Florida is pretty well broke, and we are a state with exceptionally high unemployment, an exceptionally high amount of home foreclosures, and a nearly stagnant tourism economy. We may have billions in federal monies coming, but it’s anybody’s guess if the Florida legislature and Governor Charlie Crist can find the matching funds. If it would have been a typical federal/state partnership of 80/20, most likely $500,000,000 could have been found by scrounging through various state capital budgets for a number of programs. But, with a 50/50 match, it’s not a lock Florida can find the money.

Take a look at one specific, unfunded project here in Florida; a favorite of many.

Amtrak and the Florida Department of Transportation proposed a request for $268 million â€" using the old, true metaphor of about the same or lower cost than an urban Interstate interchange â€" for restoring service on Florida’s original tourist passenger line and first real economic engine, the Florida East Coast Railway.

We lost primary passenger service on the FEC when the unions ferociously struck the railroad in 1963. All of the “name” Florida passenger trains from the Midwest and originating on the Atlantic Coast Line Railroad were moved off the FEC at Jacksonville and picked up the old Seaboard Air Line Railroad route at Auburndale, Florida into West Palm Beach, Fort Lauderdale, and Miami.

For $268 million, service would be restored on the FEC between Jacksonville and West Palm Beach, returning passenger trains to major tourist destinations such as St. Augustine, Daytona Beach, the Cape Canaveral area, and the coast just above Palm Beach. Included in the cost of restoration were eight stations, upgrading the FEC for 90 M.P.H. running, a track connection between the FEC and the Tri-Rail line at West Palm Beach which Amtrak uses, upgrades to the proposed Miami Intermodal Center, and additional rolling stock for regional frequencies in addition to splitting the Silver Meteor and Silver Star in Jacksonville and sending half of the train to Miami via the FEC and the other half via Orlando.

The proposal was a great, inexpensive deal for Florida, and, beyond Amtrak, would have benefitted the future of Tri-Rail by building the connecting track between the FEC and Tri-Rail’s track for future Tri-Rail expansion up and down the FEC to both the north and south of West Palm Beach.

What will happen now to this project? If Florida has to pony up $1.25 billion to build the high speed rail between Orlando and Tampa (which will provide redundant service to existing Amtrak service), will there be any money for new service on the FEC? It’s doubtful the proposed Orlando-Tampa high speed line will bring any additional visitors to Florida, but the FEC line has the potential of adding eight new highly desirable tourist destinations to the Amtrak system, as well as dramatically cutting the travel time between Jacksonville and Miami.

Most likely, it’s the same story all over the country. Political decisions were made to carve up the $8 billion, but what are the immediate results and consequences? Perhaps it would have been better to designate $1 billion to the Orlando-Tampa line, and almost fully fund the FEC project? Inquiring minds want to know.

OCKLAWAHA

[spuwho]

If one looks at the high level plan for HSR nationally, they have Jacksonville associated with Atlanta for any potential linkage.

Clearly HSR funding in Florida is tourism based as they attempt to connect the 3 tourism centers. (Tampa-Orlando-Miami)

Jacksonville is not a tourism hub. It is a business-military-logistics hub. It used to be a financial hub as well, but that is in Charlotte now.

Business travelers will use the Atlanta/Charlotte air hubs out of Jacksonville before boarding an HSR.

While it would be great to have HSR from Jacksonville to destinations south, it won't be practical until there is linkage with HSR destinations from the northeast. That appears to be many years in the future.

[heights unknown]

We'll all either be burning in hell or basking in Heaven when they finally get HSR here in Jax. I guess we'll never know then.

"HU"

[mtraininjax]

Tampa-Orlando-Miami

Once again, our sister cities in Florida suck all the resources. Well screw 'em I say, let'd build our port to be #1 and then play "King of the Mountain" when it comes to port resources.

FDOT is telling NE Florida, it will not be in the same leagues as Tampa-Orlando-Miami.

[thelakelander]

They rightfully suck the resources because they fight and lobby for them while Jax sticks its head in the sand.  Jax has no one to blame but Jacksonville itself. 

[JeffreyS]

We need to get the port deepend, our streetcar built and become the big dog in this state. No we won't have more people than south Florida just a better ecconomic engin.

[Ocklawaha]

If one looks at the high level plan for HSR nationally, they have Jacksonville associated with Atlanta for any potential linkage.

No, really they have us connected to the Northeast via Savannah - Charleston - Fayetteville - Richmond - Washington.  They have also proposed a line running from Atlanta to Jacksonville, this is called "The Southeast high Speed Rail Corridor" Jacksonville doesn't need Atlanta or Orlando to succeed.  http://www.sehsr.org/

Jacksonville is susposed to be connected to the Florida High Speed Rail in phase 2, though if we depend on Tallahassee, HU is right on his assessment of when that will happen! http://www.floridahighspeedrail.org/

Another reason to serve Jacksonville is the "sleeper" system, Gulf Coast High Speed Rail, a plan that is about where Florida was in 1974. Unless a super surge takes place, most of us WON'T be alive when it's built, but the ultimate terminal is Jacksonville, making a Houston - New Orleans - Gulf Coast - Jacksonville route a reality. A recent $992 million dollar grant for planning (INCLUDING Jacksonville) makes this system a real possilility: http://www.fra.dot.gov/us/content/649 and http://www.southernhsr.org/

Clearly HSR funding in Florida is tourism based as they attempt to connect the 3 tourism centers. (Tampa-Orlando-Miami)

This is true, though they "claim" to plan an extension to Jacksonville from Orlando, in the future.  As it now stands, the High Speed Line will carry little else then tourists and the curious as it avoids all of Central Florida's town's and cities.  Thus the one great advantage of rail, city center to city center is lost on Florida.

Jacksonville is not a tourism hub. It is a business-military-logistics hub. It used to be a financial hub as well, but that is in Charlotte now.

Business travelers will use the Atlanta/Charlotte air hubs out of Jacksonville before boarding an HSR.

Jacksonville has always been a railroad hub and except for a couple of generations of absolutely STUPID misleaders, it would still be a railroad passenger hub. No amount of "tweaking" Orlando's Airport is going to make it into Jacksonville Terminal.  High Speed Rail would thrive here, but even Amtrak would thrive even more so.

While it would be great to have HSR from Jacksonville to destinations south, it won't be practical until there is linkage with HSR destinations from the northeast. That appears to be many years in the future.

Any Link to Jacksonville would be practical, as we are the "choke point" or natural hub of ALL railroad routes coming into Florida, and that includes Amtrak.  If or when Amtrak blossoms into a true national carrier, with service to such diverse places as Nashville, Louisville, Chattanooga, Macon, Montgomery, Mobile, Pensacola, Biloxi, Asheville, etc... all of those lines will cross in Jacksonville. That isn't a bad feed for anybodys High Speed System.

In the distant someday that all of this is accomplished, JACKSONVILLE will be the ONLY American city with 3 distinct High Speed Rail systems, plus Amtrak, (or whatever becomes of Amtrak).


OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

Clearly HSR funding in Florida is tourism based as they attempt to connect the 3 tourism centers. (Tampa-Orlando-Miami)

they also happen to be the 3 largest metro areas in the state....the smallest, Orlando, is 75% larger than Jacksonville.