Re-Envisioning Shipyards/Convention center

[thelakelander]

You could probably squeeze 350,000-400,000sf of exhibition space at the courthouse site.  We only need around 200,000.

[CS Foltz]

I missed your post cline...........I am against "Fee's" because they circumvent voter approvel and I am against taxes unless government can prove to me that they are running a lean machine. Too much waste everywhere and I see no one taking steps to correct that ...........correct that then I would consider a tax increase but not before........make sense?

[cityimrov]

How big is the fairgrounds?

[thelakelander]

^They own around 12.5 acres.

[Ocklawaha]

How big is the fairgrounds?

Sorry, but if I'm an out of town visitor, I'd rather attend a convention at 8Th and Myrtle, at least Durkeeville has some really nice redevelopment and small mom and pop businesses.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Ock, I would too.  The mayor has this one right.  The current courthouse site makes the most sense.  The land is already publicly owned, plus there's a hotel and entertainment district already in place.  Any other site (shipyards, JEA, fairgrounds, etc.) means we'll have to subsidize infill supporting development to compete with whats already in place.  Now lets figure out a way to make it happen so the terminal can be used for its original purpose.

[tufsu1]

I missed your post cline...........I am against "Fee's" because they circumvent voter approvel and I am against taxes unless government can prove to me that they are running a lean machine. Too much waste everywhere and I see no one taking steps to correct that ...........correct that then I would consider a tax increase but not before........make sense?

not really...and it never has

[CS Foltz]

tufsu.......lemme try it this way..........City decides to impose an access "Fee" to the net, just to increase revenue, or" Fee "to access downtown via vehicle! How about your phone, assuming you have a cell phone, did you ever notice all of the "Fee's" your paying, Universal Access Fee, Telecommunications Fee,Federal Excise Fee , if your bill was $100 Dollars............anywhere for $25 to $40 Dollars are Fees and Taxes! As for the Tax end.......maybe it is too simple............you spend more than you receive you will end up in jail sooner or later. That does not happen to governments does it............COJ is going to be $147 Million Dollars in the hole next Budget cycle  and you think this is good! Oh I know...........we will just phone Washington and tell them to print us some more money! I have to live within my means and I see no reason why government can not either!

[mtraininjax]

CS - If anything last year showed us all the waste in the city. The promises of working on next year's budget immediately have yet to show publicly, so yes, we are probably in for another black eye this summer as foreclosures continue to rise. If our Tally leaders are so good, in Wise and Ray, why don't they work to amend the Sales Tax rules and allow for sales taxes to assist in the revenue for governments? We all know 7 percent is cheap compared to other states, we can't keep living on the cheap, and with real estate in the tank, you can't keep taxing the smaller and smaller base.

[tufsu1]

CS...where do you get the $147 million budget hole thing from...just last week you said it was going to be $40 million?

[Captain Zissou]

you spend more than you receive you will end up in jail sooner or later.

Are you assuming all poor people resort to crime?? 

[Ocklawaha]

CS - If anything last year showed us all the waste in the city. The promises of working on next year's budget immediately have yet to show publicly, so yes, we are probably in for another black eye this summer as foreclosures continue to rise. If our Tally leaders are so good, in Wise and Ray, why don't they work to amend the Sales Tax rules and allow for sales taxes to assist in the revenue for governments? We all know 7 percent is cheap compared to other states, we can't keep living on the cheap, and with real estate in the tank, you can't keep taxing the smaller and smaller base.

WELL SAID MTRAIN!  

I don't have a problem with focused fee's as long as they are somewhat limited to those who will directly benefit from them.  Parking fees on garage spaces, which support a special transit district (such as vintage streetcar), which in turn increase the value of all development are an example of a win - win situation.

Just because it's Jacksonville, doesn't mean we can't get it right, we have the benefit of learning from others who have gone before us.

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

tufsu...........those were the last figures in the TU that was being bandied about...........so I think somewhere between the $40 Million and the TU's last figure of $147 ! Either way, we are going to be starting out in the hole are we not?

[CS Foltz]

mtraininjax...........I would agree! There has to be a happy medium between what the real time costs are compared to projections! Whether or not an sales tax increase is the way to go, I am not sure right now! I do realize that an addition to the Bed Tax would be a bad idea, especially for the Hospitality Industry which is already strained! Having a cost effective Government in place would also be really nice, but what do I know, I am just a simple taxpayer!

[Jason]

There is immense potential for the courthouse site.  Like Lakelander said "think vertical". 

At around 8.3 acres we could easily see a 350,000 square foot facility with parking onthe first level or first coule levels and the main floor area above.  Realistically, a three level convention center would not be that out of the ordinary.  Picture 2/3 of the first and second floors devoted to parking...the leftover 1/3 on the first and second could be open area, perhaps a grand entryway with vendors, eateries, shops, and the entire third level would be the main convention floor.  Also, mixed use spaces lining Bay street and the riverfront and possibly even an expanded Hyatt or some other anchor hotel along the riverfront as well.  With the mix of uses you get an imbeded private sector commitment and you also get a more useable center that's not sitting vacant most of the year.


Here are some of the images I created a while back... Yeah, cheesy but they do make it clearer...