Norfolk: Jacksonville's Twin?

[Ocklawaha]

The whole Light Rail Project was started by Virginia Beach! When completed it will be just under 19 miles long and still cost 1/2 of our new highway for a bus!  

Virginia Beach Becomes Spectator as Norfolk Readies for Light-Rail Project

Now that Hampton Road Transit and Norfolk leaders have overcome ''the Federal Transit Administration's stringent economic hurdles'' for their light-rail project, Virginia Beach officials should ''tally the price'' of their 1999 referendum that took the resort city out of the light-rail partnership, says a Virginian-Pilot editorial, stressing that ''at $230 million for 7.4 miles, it is still much cheaper to move people on rail than on asphalt'' and that Norfolk's biggest payoff will likely lie in ''smart-growth, transit-oriented development around some of its 11 light rail stations.''

Norfolk and Virginia Beach, some 18 miles east, are connected by I-264 and Virginia Beach Boulevard, but ''(e)conomics, lifestyle and common sense beg for the clusters of stores, businesses and destinations to be linked by something more,'' the editorial notes, sorry the future light-rail line will not reach the oceanfront.

What's more, Virginia Beach -- also hurt by its earlier decision to close expressway tolls and divest itself of funds for the needed $1 billion of improvements along I-264 to ease mid-city congestion -- can't count on transit-oriented projects to help remake its center.

''The irony is that light rail is coming to the city that wants it most for development, not to the one that needs it most for traffic relief,'' the editorial observes, concluding: ''The logic for light rail in Virginia Beach was persuasive in 1999. Today, it is inescapable.'' -- Virginian-Pilot  9/9/2006

Bring back Jacksonville Traction Company, Trolleys, Heritage Rail, Commuter Rail, and make Jacksonville the Light Rail Capital of the South... Then jump back and watch us grow! Would you believe into the 1930's PALATKA had commuter trains and we didn't? True! Makes one wonder if we've always been asleep at the Controller

Ocklawaha

[thelakelander]

Wow, I never realized that VaBeach finally realized the huge mistake they were making when they wanted to build BRT on that old rail line, as opposed to light rail that would be an extension of Norfolk's line.  That's a powerful article to see a place just as sprawled out and autocentric as us admit that full blown light rail is cheaper than dedicated busways.

[thelakelander]

I'm in Norfolk for a day. I haven't been here in ten years but I love something about the Elizabeth River and all the shipbuilding facilities as a part of its downtown area.  A few random things I noticed last night.

1. The Marriott's 60,000 square foot convention center is the largest in DT Norfolk. It's smaller than the P.O. but dab smack in the middle of DT. The attached Marriott I'm staying at has around 400 rooms.



2. A Hilton just opened up across the street last night.  The local news called it a "game changer" for downtown. Lol, where have I heard that before?



3. Granby Street is pretty nice. Lots of restaurants and bars for something like six straight blocks.  In general, the downtown streets, landscape and buildings appear to be well taken care of.



4. I probably won't get around to taking the Tide LRT (may drive out to check out VA Beach instead). However, I did notice a lot of new development along its path through DT.


5. Waterside (the Landing's sibling) is closed. It reopens next month as a food hall.
http://watersidedistrict.com/

[Fallen Buckeye]

Hampton also has some nice features in their downtown, too. I remember that they used to have a weekly event in their main downtown park which generated some nice foot traffic, but that was 10 years ago so I'm not sure they still do it. They have the aquarium in their downtown, too. The Hampton Roads area is definitely spread out in a few dense nodes, but I think some of that is due to the Chesapeake Bay and all the waterways there.

[spuwho]

Put 6 CVN's in Mayport, with the associated supporting companies, employees, nuclear engineering requirements, etc. and I bet the metro Jax area would probably support the same hotel volume as Norfolk.

The Virginia congressional delegation irrationally fights any and all efforts to move a single CVN to Mayport, while it brings a ridiculous military type of risk to our country, they are more worried about reducing a portion of the federal teat that props them up.

If the Norfolk economy is so fragile, that the movement of just one CVN would bring ruin, then they have other issues to worry about.

[thelakelander]

Probably so. The Hampton Roads economy doesn't appear to be as diverse. It's basically the port and military as the major anchors and then everything esle.

[heights unknown]

I visited Norfolk several times in the 70's and 80's, and lived there for two years from 1984 to 1986. It was kind of drab back then but looks like things have changed. It's downtown did have a flurry of bars back then and Granby Street was the place to shop and eat. Most all of the bars and taverns had a little restaurant in them in which seemed kind of odd to me back then cause I was living in Jacksonville all of those years (I am from Jacksonville), and almost none of the bars and taverns served burgers and fries. I lived on Little Creek Road which led to the Amphibious base. I didn't like the taxes in Virginia, and, you had to have two license plates (1 back and 1 forward), and two inspection stickers on your car. Lovely town and I would not go as far as to say that it's Jax' twin, but there are a lot of general/small similarities.