Changing the Urban Landscape in 2010

[JaxNative68]

Yes.  The retail underneath the garage was pushed on the building owner and the designer by the DRC review committee and the city of Jax, so it got shoehorned in . . . it was never intended but was reluctantly added.  It is an urban setting, so you have to be creative with the space â€" I don’t want to hear any 20x80 strip mall vanilla box sizing is the answer.  The retail under the tower is adequate size and is still empty. 

Many designs have been done for prospective tenants both for under the garage and under the tower, but none seam to get carried through when the designs get priced for actual build-out.  Most Jacksonville mom and pop start up restaurant and retailer don’t realize the costs of urban development.  They have been spoiled by the cheap strip mall mentality of Jacksonville; which gives them sticker shock in the end, resulting in cold feet and no production.

If leasing rates are the issue, how will 200 Riverside have rates that are much better; especially with Hallmark representing them?  I have seen the designs for the building and it doesn’t look like it will have low overhead or subsidized retail/restaurant space.

[nestliving]

What's 501 Riverside?  Is that Everbank?  If so, the retail spaces facing Riverside Avenue in the garage are poorly designed (not enough depth) and if leasing rates are too high, will be hard to fill.

A while back I contacted them about the spaces they had. Once I told them about my business they told me that they were only looking for a business that would cater for the needs of the workers in the area. They left me with the impression that they did not even want to fill the space.

[JaxNative68]

now that could explain while it is still vacant!

[reednavy]

Ha, nice job Everbank. Of course, back then they were being picky, I'm sure they'd gladly take you if you were looking now though.

[JaxNative68]

don't blame EverBank.  Their name is on the building, but they do not own the building or have any control over who leases within the building.

[thelakelander]

Yes.  The retail underneath the garage was pushed on the building owner and the designer by the DRC review committee and the city of Jax, so it got shoehorned in . . . it was never intended but was reluctantly added.  It is an urban setting, so you have to be creative with the space â€" I don’t want to hear any 20x80 strip mall vanilla box sizing is the answer.  The retail under the tower is adequate size and is still empty.

It doesn't matter what you want to hear.  If a space isn't designed right, unless you're in a place like Manhattan with heavy foot traffic or lease rates are dirt cheap, it will be hard to fill.  

Many designs have been done for prospective tenants both for under the garage and under the tower, but none seam to get carried through when the designs get priced for actual build-out.  Most Jacksonville mom and pop start up restaurant and retailer don’t realize the costs of urban development.  They have been spoiled by the cheap strip mall mentality of Jacksonville; which gives them sticker shock in the end, resulting in cold feet and no production.

I disagree.  Mom and pop shops have no problem opening in little old buildings and retail spots that litter the urban core.  Johnny's is a great example and its right across the street.  If it isn't feasible to open a project in a location, there's a reason and it has nothing to do with people being spoiled by cheap strip malls.  If its feasible to open a project at the current rates and build out costs, plus there is a decent market to serve after that investment, they will get filled.  If its not, they will sit empty.

If leasing rates are the issue, how will 200 Riverside have rates that are much better; especially with Hallmark representing them?  I have seen the designs for the building and it doesn’t look like it will have low overhead or subsidized retail/restaurant space.

If they land this Marriott hotel, that's been rumored to be a part of the plan, it will have its own dining that will probably also be open to the public.  Depending on the shape and size of the vanilla box, retail space could be suitable for a pharmacy like a CVS.  In any event, if leasing rates are an issue and 200 Riverside comes in at the same rates with a bad layout, their spaces will sit empty as well.

[JaxNative68]

Johnny’s had the luxury of already having the kitchen, electrical and hvac infrastructure to greatly offset there costs.  Not to mention the building they are in is a dump and dirt cheap.  Their footprint would fit inside any of the EverBank Plaza retail spaces.

[thelakelander]

Johnny’s had the luxury of already having the kitchen, electrical and hvac infrastructure to greatly offset there costs.  Not to mention the building they are in is a dump and dirt cheap.

Bingo.  In other words, the building Johnny's occupies was a feasible market rate project. 

Their footprint would fit inside any of the EverBank Plaza retail spaces.

Not the garage. Anyway, perhaps the market just isn't ready for posh retail space build out prices and lease rates along that corridor right now.

[Captain Zissou]

Not the garage. Anyway, perhaps the market just isn't ready for posh retail space build out prices and lease rates along that corridor right now.

This sparked an idea into my head.  How would these space sizes and lease rates compare with the San Marco or 5 Points boutiques??  Just thought this would be some good info to have to either add to or detract from the foot traffic argument??

[nestliving]

I think they are about the same. with that being said, I think the rates in our urban strip centers a priced to the point that makes it hard to sustain a regular retail business long enough to actually establish a profitable following in this city. That's why I think we always have a constant turnover in businesses in San Marco, Avondale and 5 Points.

[thelakelander]

San Marco's retail spaces are way deeper than the couple in Everbank's garage.  Everbank's spaces are similar in depth to the courthouse garage's, which by the way, are empty as well. San Marco, Avondale and 5 Points were are all designed as suburban retail strips malls.  They were just built in an era when the automobile was not king and zoning laws didn't force development to include large setbacks.

[Bostech]

This is kind of projects they need to make,these are examples of departments stores but they have nice plazas or parks in front or some cool design.
You can easily recreate building into office and bottom retail plus plaza/park.Add some cheesy fountain and perfect.

[JaxNative68]

unfortunately Jacksonville doesn't seem ready for progressive architectural design

[Bostech]

I guess Jax needs some balkanization.

[JaxNative68]

That sounds like a painful medical procedure from the early episodes of Star Trek.  It gives me a visual of William Shatner screaming.