Commuter rail bill criticized as CSX 'sweetheart deal'

[fsu813]

Supporters say it sets rules for new projects; others say it's a costly windfall for CSX Corp.

TALLAHASSEE - The Senate overwhelmingly approved a commuter-rail measure Tuesday despite criticism from some that it would clear the way for a "sweetheart deal" for Jacksonville-based CSX Corp (NYSE: CSX).

Meeting in a special session - called in hopes of increasing the state's chances of snagging federal stimulus dollars for a high-speed rail project - the Senate voted 27-10 to send the legislation to Gov. Charlie Crist.

The House approved an identical measure Monday. Crist is expected to sign the bill.

"This bill is a framework to build a future infrastructure for the state of Florida," said Sen. Jeremy Ring, D-Margate.

The margin was somewhat surprising, with some observers wondering earlier in the special session whether Senate leaders could muster the 21 votes needed to move the measure through the 40-member chamber.

Supporters in the Senate said the legislation was less about South Florida's Tri-Rail system and the proposed SunRail line for Central Florida than for setting rules for proposed or envisioned projects from Jacksonville to Tampa and beyond.

"It's not just about CSX railways; it's about a vision," said Sen. Nancy Detert, R-Venice.

But opponents zeroed in on the provisions dealing with SunRail and the purchasing of lines from CSX, which stands to make hundreds of millions from the transaction.

Sen. Paula Dockery, R-Lakeland, and other opponents said the total tab for the SunRail line would be $641 million, or $10.5 million a mile - far higher than comparable projects in other parts of the country.

"We're overpaying for that track and we're setting another dangerous precedent," said Dockery, who is running for governor in 2010.

CSX hopes to use some of the funding on a $40 million plan to ease congestion along Jacksonville's Heckscher Drive. Tracks would be upgraded and a link built through Nassau County, connecting rails along U.S. 17 to the mainline running north toward Waycross, Ga.

"It gives us the opportunity to get the $40 million for the intermodal connectivity around the port, which I think will have an incredible impact on our ability to compete with Savannah, Charleston, other similar types of ports," said Sen. John Thrasher, R-St. Augustine. "It's a great opportunity for Jacksonville."

Jacksonville would also be a possible home for a future commuter rail project.

Opponents also highlighted provisions of the SunRail contract and the measure under which the state would assume liability in the event of a lawsuit against CSX. The company will still be allowed to run its freight trains along the lines at some times.

"We're not partners," scoffed Sen. Nan Rich, D-Sunrise. "They get all the money and we give the indemnity to them."

For its part, CSX disputes the cost figure cited by opponents and says the indemnity measure is not unusual and is necessary for the deal to go forward.

Gary Sease, a spokesman for the company, said the state will pay the company $432 million for the 61 miles of line and other expenses associated with the deal.

Sease said the indemnity clause will prevent a lengthy court battle between the state, CSX and others if a lawsuit results in a legal judgment or out-of-court agreement.

"It provides for quick settlement of claims that people may have on that system," Sease said.

Supporters stressed that similar agreements would be necessary anywhere commuter rail moves forward.

"The same type of indemnity language would be necessary for [a proposed Tampa Bay-area system]," said Senate President Jeff Atwater, R-North Palm Beach. "It would be necessary for Jacksonville, it would be necessary for the expansion of Tri-Rail to a new corridor if that ever happens."

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-12-09/story/commuter_rail_bill_criticized_as_csx_sweetheart_deal

[thelakelander]

You can't please everybody.

[fsu813]

Sen. Paula Dockery, R-Lakeland, and other opponents said the total tab for the SunRail line would be $641 million, or $10.5 million a mile - far higher than comparable projects in other parts of the country.

"We're overpaying for that track and we're setting another dangerous precedent," said Dockery, who is running for governor in 2010.

&

Gary Sease, a spokesman for the company, said the state will pay the company $432 million for the 61 miles of line and other expenses associated with the deal.

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Does the cost sound about right to you guys, or is it over priced as Sen. Dockery says?

[thelakelander]

The price is fine.  If anything, CSX is selling the line too cheap. Visit this link to see the cost estimates for Sunrail:

http://www.metroplanorlando.com/site/upload/documents/CommuterRail_MythsFacts_June2008.pdf

[tufsu1]

as hasd been pointed out by Lake and others many times, the larger cost figures include n5 overpasses built along the CSX S-line....problem is 1 of those has already been built (SR 20 @ 301) and another is already under construction (SR 26 @ 301).

[Lunican]

I wonder how much 61 miles of land through Central Florida would cost if they were trying to piecemeal it together.

Dockery says it's overpriced, but there really isn't anything to back that up. I believe in the past she has compared the costs of other projects that used abandoned or seldom used rights of way. This is a mainline through Central Florida that wasn't even for sale.

[JeffreyS]

Let's not forget that CSX is investing at least 60 of the 150 million they recieve back into the state and local jobs with rail and yard improvements in Jacksonville. If you count the Winter haven yard build(this project has long been connected to Sunrail) out most of the CSX money is invested in the state twice creating Jobs.

[CS Foltz]

I have yet to find any figures that make sense to me! If Dockery's figures are correct that is one thing but the State is saying something totally different so who is correct? If the $461 figure is right then we are over paying and CSX still uses that line! I am glad to see that we are moving in a direction that is positive (as in commuter rail no matter what the name is) but the funding is still up in the air. We are buying tracks with nothing to put on them, no stopping points and nothing to put on the rails so how is this a good deal for the taxpayer?

[FayeforCure]

Sen. Paula Dockery, R-Lakeland, and other opponents said the total tab for the SunRail line would be $641 million, or $10.5 million a mile - far higher than comparable projects in other parts of the country.

"We're overpaying for that track and we're setting another dangerous precedent," said Dockery, who is running for governor in 2010.

&

Gary Sease, a spokesman for the company, said the state will pay the company $432 million for the 61 miles of line and other expenses associated with the deal.

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Does the cost sound about right to you guys, or is it over priced as Sen. Dockery says?

Don't bother asking lakelander or any of the others,.......they wanted Sunrail at any cost because of future perks to Jax. It seems reasonable to me that deals that were worked out during the boom years of our Florida economy ought to be renegotiated, because they were likely over-priced.
The situation can't be stated any better than by this commenter:

Don't you love the idiots who say "but if we don't get rail then people will still drive their cars! So we should go out and pay way too much to provide an alternative ...." Take a moment and take your head out of ...er the sand. Dockery has offered compromise after compromise to get the best deal for the taxpayer and also address future transportation demands. She knows that the days of cheap oil are gone forever. She understands the need for mass transit. That doesn’t make her stupid though. Unlike some people she thinks what when the legislature spends your tax dollars it should be spent wisely and not tossed around like you had more to give.

She sees that there is a win-win solution and has consistently worked toward that even though the SunRail supporters have said “our way or the highway.” In early February she pleaded with the Governor to get involved and get the SunRail people on board renegotiations with CSX. She made suggestions about relocating the source of most of the 48 train loads that are projected to dawdle through Lakeland, destroying their business district. All rejected. She has shown more diplomacy, skill and leadership with a fraction of the resources of the CSX; which had a reported 200 lobbyists working Tally last session.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_politics/2009/12/dockery-sunrail-is-a-boondoggle-and-ill-lay-off-dot-bosses-as-governor.html

But no, lakelander makes the unsubstantiated remark of:

If anything, CSX is selling the line too cheap.

Sure,.........that's why CSX would waste paying 200 or so lobbyists!!!

Hey lakelander are you a paid or unpaid lobbyist for CSX?

Many on this board may own CSX stock too,.........so there might be another conflict of interest biasing their statements in defense of CSX.

[FayeforCure]

Sen. Paula Dockery, R-Lakeland, and other opponents said the total tab for the SunRail line would be $641 million, or $10.5 million a mile - far higher than comparable projects in other parts of the country.

"We're overpaying for that track and we're setting another dangerous precedent," said Dockery, who is running for governor in 2010.

&

Gary Sease, a spokesman for the company, said the state will pay the company $432 million for the 61 miles of line and other expenses associated with the deal.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does the cost sound about right to you guys, or is it over priced as Sen. Dockery says?

Here is the cost breakdown,......where Dockery's numbers include building 5 over passes on the S-line to accomodate the additional CSX freight rail traffic going through Lakeland, that is being rerouted from the Sunrail line.

CSX will actually get direct payments of $491 million according to page 4 of
http://www.metroplanorlando.com/site/upload/documents/CommuterRail_MythsFacts_June2008.pdf

CSX will also get indirect payments this way:
FDOT will construct five grade separations on the S-line at $214 million

Additionally there will be $615 million in capital costs to construct 17 station stops, parking lots etc. including $65 for double-tracking to provide for passenger rail operations as 41 miles of freight operations is currently on single track.

Hence the $1.2 billion cost tag excluding operations and maintenance which is estimated at another $1.2 billion over 30 years, for a whopping total of $2.4 billion.

[Lunican]

CSX; which had a reported 200 lobbyists working Tally last session.

Is there a source to verify this?

[JeffreyS]

When you hear there were 200 lobiests it is not quite a lie. The firm has 200 employees.

[FayeforCure]

CSX; which had a reported 200 lobbyists working Tally last session.

Is there a source to verify this?

Well let's see, I wasn't the one making the statement about nthe number of lobbyists, but I will direct you to Open Secrets for 2009:

Itemized Lobbying Expenses for CSX Corp Firms Hired Total Reported by Filer Reported Contract Expenses (included in Total Reported by Filer)
CSX Corp $3,881,431 -
CSX Corp - $3,881,431
Duberstein Group - $300,000
Smith-Free Group - $150,000
Compass Consulting Group - $80,000
ML Strategies - $60,000
Law Offices of Kevin G Curtin - $60,000
Hunton & Williams - $50,000
McGlotten & Jarvis - $40,000
Birch, Horton et al - $10,000
Bracewell & Giuliani - $0
  $750,000

Lobbying Expenses Reported by Subsidiary Horizon Lines Firms Hired Total Reported by Filer Reported Contract Expenses (included in Total Reported by Filer)
Capitol Counsel  $150,000
Devierno, John A.  $120,000
Quadripoint Strategies  $12,600

I would assume these lobbyists firms contracted by CSX might employ some 200 lobbyists altogether..........

[thelakelander]

For those of you who believe the cost is too high, what's your leg to stand on?  In your minds, how much should it cost and what are you using as a comparable?

[FayeforCure]

CSX has lobbied heavily against efforts by Congress to force rail operators to upgrade their lines.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000148&lname=CSX+Corp

Instead they want the tax payer to upgrade their lines, as evidenced by the Sunrail deal!