TPO plan includes $777M in bus, commuter rail and more

[thelakelander]

A Jax Biz Journal article that I thought many here would find interesting.

[heights unknown]

That "Clem" guy looks like a Prison imate; anyhoo, seems like some good money getting read to be spent on transportation initiatives.  Let's stop talking, acquire the cash, and get the ball rolling!

Heights Unknown

[Jason]

All sounds good except for the outer beltway.

[fsujax]

Don't worry. Unless a private company steps forward to build the outer beltway it isn't going to happen.

[Tripoli1711]

What exactly does he mean by "frequent trolley service".  Potato chip trucks, I assume?  Yippee.

[Ocklawaha]

Uh, Okay... So the TU editor can't read a pie chart, which in and of itself, probably qualifies him/her to be the mouth piece for the City of Jacksonville's TPO. Not just roads, awesome, so only 49% is roads! Cool man. Oops, but 36% is outer beltway, so that um, leaves um, 15% as mass transit! Sounds like more "just roads" to me. Where do we get these people, Colombia? Hell no, the THIRD WORLD IS MORE FIRST WORLD THEN OUR PRIMITIVE SOCIETY.  

Jacksonville, time to pull your head out!!

OCKLAWAHA

[JeffreyS]

I know this was supposed to sound like a positive step towards mass transit. To me it said move to Chicago.

[fsujax]

No. Real streetcaars. They wouldnt put PCT's in the Long Range Plan.

[north miami]

The outer beltway has of course proven silent yet sticky during the past four decades of ever so careful and methodical narrative and events.The legally binding "NO BUILD" option and opportunity quietly came and went sometime ago- and I bet most reading this can not cite the workings or timing of that aspect- including the area's 'environmental community' that has focused on evil central Florida's overgrowth during 'water war' episodes yet has remained unaware and hardly engaged in the yet unseen yet quietly vested classic 'sprawl' narrative that has unfolded during the past twelve years-even John Delaney made pivotal pro beltway input.

The exception being the Florida Wildlife Federation.( what a bummer of a name for an organization so needed and involved in a host of broad ranging community and 'people' affairs....)

FWF managed to stem bold attempts at route through existing State Conservation lands/Ravines and contributed other key 'planning elements.Based in Tallahassee,the Florida Wildlife Federation Northeast Florida regional office was established in anticipation of such pressures.A lot of water had already gone under the bridge so to speak.And the 'public workshop' narratives,Brannon/Chaffee Sector plan,TWO Lake Asbury Sector plans,one curiously deemed 'non authorized' after months of activity and meetings whereby the predetermined beltway route outcome was fought back by area citizens is telling- also telling is the complete lack of 'reporting'.

The sad fact is the Beltway will prove a 'sacred catastrophe' for Northeast Florida.
The 'driver' for the beltway;Brannon/Chaffee,emerged during a past that would require a different future,and a future that would require a different past.In the words of former Clay County Planner Dick Post,"We have bought the farm".And every county planner since then has been joined at the hip with the ardent not militant development community.We get the government-and the landscape-we deserve.

[Ocklawaha]

No. Real streetcaars. They wouldnt put PCT's in the Long Range Plan.

Sad, we once again MUST educate these people on, what is a trolley and what is NOT. Recently I was told by a SPAR leader that "We don't need streetcars tearing up Main Street because we already have TROLLEYS!" Damn, pour on the SOCO...

THIS is due in no small part to the disservice JTA has provided in calling a "POTATO CHIP TRUCK-THINKS ITS A STREETCAR," -a trolley! NOT!

OCKLAWAHA

[Tripoli1711]

Hence my confusion.  What do they mean by "trolley" as cited in the article?  Are we certain they mean streetcar? 

[Captain Zissou]

I know this was supposed to sound like a positive step towards mass transit. To me it said move to Chicago.

To me it said we're spending twice as much money on something pointless, but at least you get the scraps this time.  $775M over 25 years??  That's barely enough to do a new commuter rail study every 4 months......AHH!

[north miami]

Smoke & mirrors.It's all in the pitch.
The fact that the key Brannon/Chaffee leg has long history of erroneous promotion as "alleviation" for Blanding Blvd.in fact never mattered.....the ploy worked!

It's all about the lack of headlines....or the 'proper' headlines.

improper "rude" headline to read:
5 BILLION TRANSPORTATION PLAN INCLUDES ONLY 777 MILLION FORIN BUS,COMMUTER RAIL

Such a headline not to be seen or imagined even in MJ format.........

ONWARD- Mike Webster

[thelakelander]

Hence my confusion.  What do they mean by "trolley" as cited in the article?  Are we certain they mean streetcar? 

They mean real streetcar, not the PCT.

[Joe]

Does anyone know if the streetcar is a serious proposal? In other words, is there a snowball's chance in hell that the city would attempt to fund $105 million dollars for a system that roughly parallels the skyway for about 40% of its route?

Based on my very cursory calculations of the distance to Springfield and the Stadium (and presuming the streetcar is double-tracked) they are proposing a system at about $11-$14 million per lane-mile. This seems extremely aggressive, and is actually cheaper than some of the lines that Portland built in 1990's dollars.

So is the proposal single-tracked? Is it a serious proposal? Who is behind it besides the TPO and that one private developer on Bay St? Any planners or transit experts who have the inside scoop?

I would be excited beyond belief if something like this actually happens. But when I read "$105 million" and "local funding" I have to roll my eyes at the suggested timetable of a couple years.