S.R. 16 Shands Bridge

[tufsu1]

9B is more like $184 million.....the first phase (intersection w/ US 1 to 9A) is out for bid at no more than $84 million

[CS Foltz]

Bridge we could use.........9B taxpayer waste of money.....developers bonanza period!

[stjr]

9B is more like $184 million.....the first phase (intersection w/ US 1 to 9A) is out for bid at no more than $84 million

"Hmmmm... a new Shands Bridge or 9B?  How tough a choice is that?  What a messed up system we have for setting priorities"

Really not much of choice.  One is an estimated $84 million and the other is going to cost WAY more than 200.  This is a senseless statement regardless if you are pro or con 9b.  There is no choice due to the cost.  A new bridge will be a toll bridge.  That I am sure you can count on.  As well it should be.  If you use it, pay for it. 

Funny, in 2004, DOT said it would be $206 million.  That was 5 years ago.

And, if the 9B TOTAL is really $184 million today, that is the number to compare to a $200 million bridge.  We are talking an 8% difference.  You can't just pick an arbitrary phase 1 number of less than half and suit yourself.  Talk about senseless!

What really counts is the Cost - BENEFIT.  If the benefits are high enough, the extra cost can be a bargain.

This simple minded approach is another part of the decision making process problem.  Let's spend the Feds free money or lose it, even if we waste it.  Let's spend on the cheap way out just to get something done rather than INVEST in doing the right thing.  Let's do what the special interests ask for.  Let's do the emotional knee-jerk and do what APPEARS best without too much thought.  And so on....

Florida Times Union:
[1-23-2004]
The state Department of Transportation on Thursday kicked off a study that will pick a St. Johns County route for Florida 9B, the $206 million highway that will give Julington Creek residents a faster connection to Interstate 95...

[stjr]

A new bridge will be a toll bridge.  That I am sure you can count on.  As well it should be.  If you use it, pay for it. 

So, St. Auggie, you would support paying for 9B with user tolls?  I just want to check the consistency of your position.

[reednavy]

Now, when they do build a new span, I seriously hope they build something a little nicer than the simple spans as of late.

[St. Auggie]

So, St. Auggie, you would support paying for 9B with user tolls?  I just want to check the consistency of your position.
[/quote]

You bet.  I grew up in Chicago.  You can take local roads in the area, but if you want to GET somewhere, you will pay a toll.  You get use to it. Getting to go over a bridge that I dont fear for my life is worth a couple bucks to me.   I would think the board would be in favor of this being a toll so that you are not footing the full bill.  Not to mention the whole outer (isnt it actually and outer outer beltway?) beltway.

[St. Auggie]

Use and improve what is already there before you build something that has no real purpose to begin with. This goes for 9A as well, it needs to be widened like it should've been from the get go.
[/quote]

The shands bridge will not survive this.  They will not be saving it.  Maybe part of it as a fishing pier, that bridge is gone.  Count on it.  It will not be improved, it will be REMOVED.  The  reason the stament is senless is because the NEW bridge will be closer to 500 million.  This part of 9b will be 20% of that.  You are talking apples to oranges.  That is why is is senseless.  9b is being built w/ "left over" money.  There is not $500 million "left over".  From what I am told that bridge may cost even more than that.  I would get on board w/ improving 9a, but I believe the full scope of 9b does have improvements to 9a included.  I may be wrong here.  I am not talking about just this phase, I mean overall.  Anyone know about that?

[reednavy]

I never mentioned the Shands Bridge surviving anything. I'm refering to improving 9A before ever even giving 9B a second look. The Shands Bridge will not cost half a billion dollars to build either, that is over twice of what was even estimated for a tolled replacement as part of the Outer Beltway. The bridge is outdated, and used by more cars than what the design intended. Hell, a part of the bridge was knocked out years ago and was replaced with cheap steel grating.

A new Shands Bridge does not need to be tolled, as it serves a multiple uses and what is currently there isn't. It wouldn't be fair to them as this is the only crossing between the Buckman and Palatka. 9B however, deserves to be tolled, it serves no purpose other than trying to please people in northern St. Johns County by getting them to their jobs quicker.

[CS Foltz]

Why not toll both 9A and 9B? Bridge when replaced will become a "Toll" bridge......government will take every opportunity to raise revenue of some kind for the coffers!

[JaxBorn1962]

Why not toll both 9A and 9B? Bridge when replaced will become a "Toll" bridge......government will take every opportunity to raise revenue of some kind for the coffers!

Tolls are DUMB they add to the Pollution Problem we have now. Put a 1 cent sales tax to pay for these needed roads.

[tufsu1]

Tolls are DUMB they add to the Pollution Problem we have now. Put a 1 cent sales tax to pay for these needed roads.

Not true at all...in fact, most tolling is now via transponder (SunPass, EZPass, etc.) so there is very little slowing down..

In fact, one could argue that modern-day tolling helps reduce pollution in that it adds to the cost of driving, thereby yielding fewer trips.

[JaxBorn1962]

"Hmmmm... a new Shands Bridge or 9B?  How tough a choice is that?  What a messed up system we have for setting priorities"

Really not much of choice.  One is an estimated $84 million and the other is going to cost WAY more than 200.  This is a senseless statement regardless if you are pro or con 9b.  There is no choice due to the cost.  A new bridge will be a toll bridge.  That I am sure you can count on.  As well it should be.  If you use it, pay for it. 

Tolls are Dumb if you live in Duval we all should pay for all roads etc etc etc. If you use it, pay for it, is so Juvenile I say raise a 1-2 cent sales tax on everything we buy that is taxable and we could have more new and better roads.

[reednavy]

What?

9B should be tolled, it serves no real purpose to people in Duval County.

A new Shands Bridge should not be a toll bridge period.

[Doctor_K]

Tolls are Dumb if you live in Duval we all should pay for all roads etc etc etc. If you use it, pay for it, is so Juvenile I say raise a 1-2 cent sales tax on everything we buy that is taxable and we could have more new and better roads.

They already did that.  It's called the Better Jacksonville Plan.  Besides, the county as a whole just voted down millage rate increases.  I'm not so sure people would turn right around and vote for a tax *increase* after just rejecting one.

[tufsu1]

One other problem with sales taxes for infratructure....it can only be used for capital costs, not operations/maintenance.

So how do you fund the maintainenance on all the new/widened roads built with the sales tax?