High Speed Rail: A No-Brainer

thelakelander · October 12, 2009, 10:59:59 PM

^True. Isn't CSX supposed to abandon the Taft Yard as a part of the Sunrail project? It would cost more but perhaps the airport HSR station should be moved to the west side of the airport property at Taft, then connected by an airport people mover, similar to the peoplemover that will connect MIA to Miami's intermodal center. Then again, why bother? HSR won't be going high speed in Orlando anyway.

Ocklawaha · October 13, 2009, 12:57:27 AM

Quote from: FayeforCure on October 12, 2009, 10:27:33 PM
As I told you before I took urban planning classes, including economic geography at the University of Amsterdam. We had some Professors from Ann Arbor Michigan teach us American urban planning.

Besides, urban planning is alive and well in Europe, where there are many vibrant inner cities, and old buildings well preserved. Public transportation is a given in Europe.

Political speak all over again Faye. You took some classes in Amsterdam, your an economist, but now your an urban planner, that is when your not a transportation planner/consultant. You picked up enough in school to tell us everything you think we want to hear, density, urbanism, HSR, balance, walkability etc., then spin right around and toss it all into the wind because your willing to flush every future rail project in the state on the alter of a very poorly planned, no where - to theme park - to expressway interchange, MMHSR project.

Lake and I ate lunch at a Bono's BBQ a couple of month ago, but that doesn't make us spare ribs!

If your really the peoples candidate, one would think you would at least listen to the professional people who are trying to help you make a brave and memorable stand. But like both parties today, rather then a elephant and a donkey, they ought to both be using LEMMINGS as their symbol.

Lake, They won't "abandon Taft Yard" they will quit making up trains there for the most part, and shift that to the new yard. Taft will then be the interchange with Florida Central, and for local switching moves. BTW, you do know that the old NAVY railroad left the CSX and went right up into the Tradeport area where the big hangers are. Pretty close to the OIA runways. So a people mover or short subway might work. Hell, if they did deep enough maybe they'll disturb that sleeping volcano and our problems with Orlando and Disney will be over... Yeah, I know, wishful thinking.

OCKLAWAHA

CS Foltz · October 13, 2009, 06:39:23 AM

The more that I see what is being pushed the less that I like what I am seeing! Red Dots show something that could do something, still take exception to where the stops are projected to be but the concept has merit! The main issue that I have is with the Blue Dots and their layout. If half of the those projected station are not in the I4 corrider just how will they get and start dropping south? Everyone keeps referring to "HSR" being used but I don't see where there is any option to use High Speed Rail on what is basically short runs between stations! I may be new to the concept but I do have an understanding of simple physics! It takes x amount of power to move x amount of weight,the faster it goes the more brake horsepower it takes to stop. So it would seem prudent to assume that something traveling at 100 mph would not stop within a mile or even two! From my perspective being able to run at those speeds is only usefull for something that can get up to that kind of speed and hold it without having to stop every ten miles!

thelakelander · October 13, 2009, 06:56:45 AM

CS, its simple. HSR won't be getting up to "high speeds" in Orlando, there are too many stations. HSR isn't what this area really needs. However, they do plan to have express trains, so one could assume that those trains will get through suburban Orlando faster, on their way to Disney, Lakeland and Tampa.

CS Foltz · October 13, 2009, 07:16:14 AM

OK lake.......just the term keeps throwing me off! Maybe call it the "Express Line" or something else. But true HSR it ain't gonna be for sure. Both systems are separate also with no common connection crossing or ability to transfer from one to the other...........does not make much sense ftom a use point of view. Something is wrong with the design if you don't have that capability......two stand alone systems not cost effective to either install or maintain......but thats just me!

civil42806 · October 13, 2009, 07:17:42 AM

Quote from: Ocklawaha on October 13, 2009, 12:57:27 AM
Quote from: FayeforCure on October 12, 2009, 10:27:33 PM
As I told you before I took urban planning classes, including economic geography at the University of Amsterdam. We had some Professors from Ann Arbor Michigan teach us American urban planning.

Besides, urban planning is alive and well in Europe, where there are many vibrant inner cities, and old buildings well preserved. Public transportation is a given in Europe.

Political speak all over again Faye. You took some classes in Amsterdam, your an economist, but now your an urban planner, that is when your not a transportation planner/consultant. You picked up enough in school to tell us everything you think we want to hear, density, urbanism, HSR, balance, walkability etc., then spin right around and toss it all into the wind because your willing to flush every future rail project in the state on the alter of a very poorly planned, no where - to theme park - to expressway interchange, MMHSR project.

Lake and I ate lunch at a Bono's BBQ a couple of month ago, but that doesn't make us spare ribs!

If your really the peoples candidate, one would think you would at least listen to the professional people who are trying to help you make a brave and memorable stand. But like both parties today, rather then a elephant and a donkey, they ought to both be using LEMMINGS as their symbol.

Lake, They won't "abandon Taft Yard" they will quit making up trains there for the most part, and shift that to the new yard. Taft will then be the interchange with Florida Central, and for local switching moves. BTW, you do know that the old NAVY railroad left the CSX and went right up into the Tradeport area where the big hangers are. Pretty close to the OIA runways. So a people mover or short subway might work. Hell, if they did deep enough maybe they'll disturb that sleeping volcano and our problems with Orlando and Disney will be over... Yeah, I know, wishful thinking.

OCKLAWAHA

Ouch that left a Mark!

tufsu1 · October 13, 2009, 07:55:19 AM

CS...the express trains are supposed to run directly from downtown Tampa to OIA...about 75 miles...without any stops...so why wouldn't the train be able to get up to speed?

BridgeTroll · October 13, 2009, 08:31:43 AM

Quotethank you for reminding us that this is supposed to be a public discussion board where all opinions are to be welcome. Agree to disagree. Echo chambers are boring.

This is good to hear Faye...

thelakelander · October 13, 2009, 08:42:37 AM

Good point. Echo chambers are boring. While many not agree with Faye on this particular topic, its good to see the issue debated from opposite perspectives.

CS Foltz · October 13, 2009, 08:05:44 PM

tufsu1 there are limits speed wise regarding curves......unless they are banked 10 Degree's or better. I am sure there is some formula regarding speed's and curves and the type of suspension system used. I do know that there is standard type with springs and there is something else that tilts in relation to banking stresses! AGV system use's that but that is the French HSR.....I believe the Japanese use a similar system!

tufsu1 · October 13, 2009, 10:29:11 PM

which is why the route is planned for I-4...since it is far straighter than the CSX tracks

Ocklawaha · October 13, 2009, 10:46:09 PM

http://www.youtube.com/v/-1ZY6VLW7v0&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca&border=1
Curves can be superelevated, in fact they once were, until the railroads dumped passenger trains on the government.

In the Pacific Northwest and in Spain, where the tracks are FAR from tangents, they use the Talgo trains which feature a pendulum system to self bank. Both systems are in the upper ranges of world track speeds, with Oregon, Washington and British Columbia, inching up with each new improvement.
Just not an excuse to use I-4 when we have a perfectly good, and urban centered railroad mainline 10 miles to the south.

OCKLAWAHA

tufsu1 · October 13, 2009, 10:50:03 PM

Ock...I think you know that that line can't have speeds of more than 79mph without some serious upgrades....and you'll never get above 90mph without doing some major grade separations....and speeds of 110+ are virtually impossible.

So, once again....if true high speed rail is required (which was the guidance given to the consultant team 6 yerars ago), then I-4 is the only viable route.

thelakelander · October 13, 2009, 11:26:55 PM

If I-4 has to be the route because its HSR or bust, then it needs to be developed for both local and express service. By local, additional stops should be included at each major city along the corridor. At a minimum they should include, Ybor, Seminole Hard Rock/Fairgrounds, Brandon/Seffner, Plant City, Lakeland (in Lakeland assuming USF Poly is the official HSR station), US 27/I-4, Celebration, etc. Local service would at least pull in the daily commuter traffic, while express trains could run as currently proposed.

CS Foltz · October 14, 2009, 05:34:12 AM

The biggest problem that I have with the I4 corridor is there is not much there! You still have to have a connection to anything that would be traveling along that route and there does not appear to be one with the new and approved red dot layout............neither system connects with the other so you have two stand alone systems each with a goal of moving people! But they are not connected to each other at any point so where is the benefit? Two point five Billion Dollars will go down the tubes and we will have two systems going bust!