Convention center funds may be diverted to football stadium, sports complex

[mtraininjax]

I believe moving the convention center from the old terminal to the old courthouse site is THE big move downtown needs.

One thing at a time. You have to build the courthouse, and see what revenue is available in the next few budgets for ANY additional work. Next year will be worse for COJ than this year. I don't see plans for a new CC for at least 5 or more years. We can talk about till then, much like we do about light rail.

Downtown has a better chance of an aquarium in 5 years than it does a Convention Center. You think people bitch and moan about taxes now, try pushing the elephant of a CC for downtown on taxpayers backs. At least with the aquarium, kids and parents could be mesmorized by Nemo.

[mtraininjax]

5 million MORE in funds EVERY year to the Sports Area (Jax Muni Stadium mostly) whether listed or not on the books is a slippery slope. It will be 10 million, 15, 20, etc., sooner rather than later.

The same folks who support the Jags will soon be priced out of the market to attend the games. We think $75 for a Walt Disney ticket is bad, just wait for the Jags to break the 100 dollar mark for the lowest price seats.

This is something the NFL, even in a recession, does not understand. Their market is shrinking as fewer people can watch games and participate. Some of the most rabid Jag fans will never see the inside of the stadium due to the high cost of a family of 4 to attend.

[vicupstate]

Technically, these are Hotel Room taxes not property taxes.  Although, I wouldn't be surprised that PROPERTY taxes are used to fund things at the convention center (like maintenance) that would or could have been paid for by the ROOM taxes.  

If the new 'standard' for NFL stadiums, is the new Dallas stadium, then the city is definitely going to have to raise some kind of taxes.

While the sun will FADE the seats, it won't desintegrate them in 30 years would it, in all seriousness.  The $148 mm over 30 years is nearly as much as it too to build it in the first place.  That's a lot off 'maintenance' on a concrete and steel structure.  The truth is that a lot of it is 'upgrades'.  

The Coliseum in Rome is what 1,000 years old and is still standing.  The deterioration that HAS occurred has mostly been deliberate deconstruction, BTW.  

[Ocklawaha]

You would think from the comments that we are just one step away from Stalin riding down the street in a T-40.

I just couldn't resist this one! Stalin wouldn't have been caught dead in a T-40 tank, the T-40, T60, and T-70's were all LIGHT TANKS. Stalin was more a T-34 Main Battle Tank boy.

OCKLAWAHA

[mtraininjax]

If the new 'standard' for NFL stadiums, is the new Dallas stadium, then the city is definitely going to have to raise some kind of taxes.

That stadium was built by its owner, Jerry Jones. In their home opener, the Cowboys still have a few thousand seats to sell, each was over $230 a piece. You bring in a stadium at 1 BILLION dollars, your seats are going to reflect that cost. Can you imagine a Jags fan paying 230 for the crummiest seat in the house?

The problematic scoreboard in the middle cost 40 million alone.

[ac]

Personally, I'd rather this be paid on a facility in use at least 12 times a year (13 if you count the Monster Jam) vs. one in use only 2 times a year.

We should be able to maintain the stadium/sports complex and have a new convention center, museum, aquarium, etc.  Like I said in another thread, 30 other NFL cities do it.  We want to run with the big boys, we have to start acting like one.

[Ocklawaha]

With Amtrak ready to start rolling through downtown by Nov. 2011, I would think we need to get after the Prime Osbourne, post haste. We need to beg, borrow or steal at least Amtrak will allow us to reopen the old Southside (at Atlantic), and Yukon (at NAS) stations. Downtown at JACKSONVILLE TERMINAL (screw the PO name), FDOT, Amtrak, JTA and a host of others better get their collective asses in gear, or every advantage we could obtain through Amtrak money will be lost. If Amtrak blows through southside, or southwest, Jacksonville, just to arrive at our "Amshack", then we have officially screwed this up.

Finish the Courthouse, in the interim, start shifting all shows to the Hyatt, Arena, or other hotels. Have wrecking crews moving on taking down 75% of the Convention Hall, behind the station. As this demolition kicks in, develop a new private-public partnership with the Hyatt and Omni, a new riverfront Convention Center should break ground 20 minutes after the new Courthouse opens. If we'd just DO SOMETHING, we could be ready for the winter season of 2011.

Hang a $10 dollar a night charge to every hotel room in Duval, and allow the tourists and out of town business men pay for the improvements. Anyone think it would impact travel here, has probably NEVER been on a real vacation.
I've never yet seen any traveler to refuse a hotel room because a city had a room tax. God knows that I've paid for a bunch of these taxes all over the America's, and really didn't notice the difference.

OCKLAWAHA

[copperfiend]

If the new 'standard' for NFL stadiums, is the new Dallas stadium, then the city is definitely going to have to raise some kind of taxes.

That stadium was built by its owner, Jerry Jones. In their home opener, the Cowboys still have a few thousand seats to sell, each was over $230 a piece. You bring in a stadium at 1 BILLION dollars, your seats are going to reflect that cost. Can you imagine a Jags fan paying 230 for the crummiest seat in the house?

The problematic scoreboard in the middle cost 40 million alone.

I dont think 230 is the "crummiest seat".

[Tripoli1711]

You would think from the comments that we are just one step away from Stalin riding down the street in a T-40.

I just couldn't resist this one! Stalin wouldn't have been caught dead in a T-40 tank, the T-40, T60, and T-70's were all LIGHT TANKS. Stalin was more a T-34 Main Battle Tank boy.

OCKLAWAHA

I knew you were going to be the one to point this out, Ock.  There was never a doubt in my mind.  I chose the T-40 because I couldn't remember for certain whether it was T-34 or T-37 for the main battle tank.  Also... I figured Stalin would need the maneuverability of a light recon tank to tool around the streets of Jacksonville.  Didn't have confidence in the T-34's turning radius making that left onto Duval Street.

[jagsfan32092]

In Dallas, they pay $50.00 for standing room only.  Yes, the COJ needs to keep up the stadium, arena and baseball stadium.  We are so fortunate to be one of 31 cities to have a NFL team (NYC has 2).  We need to realize the marketing value the Jaguars bring to the city. 

With that said, Tony Boselli for Mayor in 2011.

[heights unknown]

I don't think I agree with this.  We really need a new Covention Center.  This probably means that if those funds are diverted the possibility of a new Convention Center is indefinitely on hold.

Come to think of it, I'd better not bitch and moan too much, cause if those funds don't get diverted to the sports complex/football stadium, we might lose the football team, and then we really will bitch, moan and groan!

Heights Unknown

[mtraininjax]

While the game hasn't sold out the Cowboys are expecting more than 100,000 fans. That's thanks to standing room only Party Passes which sell for $29. A Cowboys spokesman said there are 82,000 tickets that guarantee you a seat, so that would leave roughly 18,000 Party Passes for this Sunday's game. Those fans will be fighting for spots to see the game on six large decks that span over 180,000 square feet.

The Cowboys wouldn't say how many tickets they have left to sell before the NFL's 72 hour pre-game deadline.

Tickets are available on the Ticketmaster website. As of 4 p.m. Wednesday the cheapest seats available cost $239.  With taxes and fees, the total price for two tickets comes to $495.  That does not include parking nor any food and drink.

The cheapest seats that the Cowboys HAD to sell were $239. So standing room only for 18,000 people is $29 per game. That is 40% of the cost of the Jags crummiest seat prices, and they can get 18,000 people to stand? Seems the BUD ZONE should become the $29 standing only area as well, since you only STAND there as well.


Their Private Seat License seats run $5,000 per year. The JAG Clubs are nowhere near that bad with the Terrace level only running 3,000 per seat. So our tickets are a deal compared to the cowboys.

[JeffreyS]

I say this bodes well for a new CC. These are maintenance and debt funds. Now the CC will need to be re addressed. Just a guess.

[heights unknown]

The cheapest seats that the Cowboys HAD to sell were $239. So standing room only for 18,000 people is $29 per game. That is 40% of the cost of the Jags crummiest seat prices, and they can get 18,000 people to stand? Seems the BUD ZONE should become the $29 standing only area as well, since you only STAND there as well.

Their Private Seat License seats run $5,000 per year. The JAG Clubs are nowhere near that bad with the Terrace level only running 3,000 per seat. So our tickets are a deal compared to the cowboys.

And we still can't sell tickets though they are a "deal" compared to the Cowboys.

Heights Unknown

[stjr]

Does anyone really know how much net (after taxes generated by the Jags activities) tax dollars, from ALL sources, supports the stadium and Jags games?  I doubt the bed tax dollars are anywhere close to the whole story. We have debt service, maintenance, capital expenditures, security and police, administration, etc.

I am not taking a position here, but it should be made clear to all, before any discussion takes place, exactly what we citizens pay to keep the Jags in town.  If dollars are as stretched as the City says they are, we should know what all things costs so we can fairly determine our collective priorities.

Like mass transit, it has been proven time and time again, pro sports teams are not creations of economic development in excess of their costs.  Rather, they are intangible contributors to the community's psyche and morale and assist in general PR.  Again, everything for a price - what is ours?