JTA pays 400k for Pennsylvania Study to Restate MetroJacksonville's Free Studies

[stephendare]

Awesome.   Another 400k in consultants, with the same result, but at least they can phase it in for years.
just brilliant.

Let's parse the Times Union's account, by one of their brightest stars, Larry Hannan.

Hannan, incidentally has been all over this issue for a while now.  Solid work, and a decent guy.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-09-26/story/jta_to_discuss_chance_of_rail_system

Commuter rail won't be coming to Jacksonville anytime soon. But a long-term plan to introduce rail to Northeast Florida will get a hearing on Monday during a meeting of the Jacksonville Transportation Authority.

The JTA hired a Pennsylvania consulting firm for a $400,000 study into the feasibility of having a rail system in Jacksonville. That study will be released at the JTA board meeting at 2 p.m. at its offices on North Myrtle Avenue.

The JTA is focusing on using the existing tracks and right-of-way of CSX, Florida East Coast Railway and Norfolk Southern. Last year, the consultant, Gannett Fleming Inc., gave an update and said it would recommend commuter rail stops as far south as St. Augustine and Green Cove Springs and as far north as Yulee.

The idea, mirrored after cities such as Houston, Charlotte and Austin, Texas, does appear to be gaining support, although the level varies.

James Boyle, JTA regional transportation planner, said the authority's public feedback has been largely positive, though some people have expressed concern over how much it will cost: Early estimates had the rail line costing $543 million to build and $40 million a year to run.

Jacksonville resident Ennis Davis, one of three men behind MetroJacksonville.com, a Web site that supports using rail in Jacksonville, said he expects the JTA to move forward. But he worries that cost will sound prohibitive.

Davis said the JTA needs to focus on a commuter rail network close to downtown because building all the way to Yulee or Green Cove Springs would be too expensive.

Davis said other cities have benefited from commuter rail, and cited Charlotte, Austin and Houston as good examples to follow.

Those cities showed that commuter rail can be popular if it connects to popular destinations and attract high ridership even in low density environments, Davis said.

The North Florida Transportation Planning Organization, which does long-range planning for the region, recently had a series of workshops where the vast majority of people expressed support for some type of commuter rail system.

"We had about 350 people participate," spokeswoman Marci Larson said, "and about 80 percent said they supported commuter rail."

[buckethead]

Plagiarism? 
Perhaps some checks should be written to MJ?


Juuuust kidding. I'm sure the consultants did thier own work.

Having spent the money and seeing your input validated could prove to be a good thing if the city realizes that Team MJ is not just some hack citizen revolt group.

MJ: they do what others do, for less than half the price! 

[Ocklawaha]

Having spent the money and seeing your input validated could prove to be a good thing if the city realizes that Team MJ is not just some hack citizen revolt group.

MJ: they do what others do, for less than half the price! 

Half price hell, poor Stephendare, and Lakelander, got sucked into this a couple of years ago and I've been doing it gratis for 30 FREAKIN YEARS! If I wasn't such a damn hippie I ought to be worth a cool couple of $ Million by now, but experience has taught me, they'll beg, borrow or steal, and forget your name and phone number.

All of that just to add the FREAK postscript, I really wouldn't give a damn if they would just ACT!

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Gentlemen...........I concur! What burns my butt is the fact that MJ has been harping on the for sometime now and JTA spent 400K for an out of state firm to come to the same conclusion? Hell.......send me a check for 400K and I can plagiarism with the best of them! If they really ask nicely I might even cut them some slack on the total fee!...........not!

[stjr]

I have questioned the value of hiring consultants on MJ Boards in the past and was questioned for my comments.  This would be another good example of what do taxpayers get for their $$$?

I believe consultants are frequently told to justify preexisting desires and they mostly just provide the file filler to back up what is being advocated for (i.e political CYA).  I will say, for this money, they could hire four people for a whole year at 100K each.  With the internet and access to JTA files and previous studies, most of the research info should have been quickly assembled.  That must be one heck of a report - at least, if it's by the pound  !

Given the poor experience with the $ky-high-way reports/studies/projections, etc., I long ago came around to following my own good common sense and instincts in developing thoughts as to where we need to proceed and how best to do it.  Just like MJ, the way I see it, I am batting better than the paid consultants. And, it's FREE! 

[CS Foltz]

stjr.......your right and then some!

[Ocklawaha]

The whole process is driven by the hoops JTA and others must jump through to get the federal money for new starts. Either you hire an entire team of researchers, and PAY THEM LIKE PROFESSIONALS, or you sub it out. Most go the "cheap" route like JTA.

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Ock............if 400K is cheap then I need to get a ticket on that ride! I can understand an original study but when it is just rehashed or borrowed from a previous study is a crock Ock......sorry big guy....I could not resist! I understand what your saying............quality not withstanding .....they are just stating the obvious!

[Ocklawaha]

CS, This is the trouble you get into when your entire City economy is based on call centers, retail, hamburgers and whats left of America's industrial might. Johnny? Here's an idea, create a new JTA study team... 10-12 people all paid $8.00 an hour... Got control Johnny? Hold her steady on the course! Damn the Torpedo's, Full Speed Ahead!


OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Anyone notice the comments on the TU?  All three claim light rail won't work here.  While they are flat out wrong, LRT was never mentioned in the article.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-09-26/story/jta_to_discuss_chance_of_rail_system

[thelakelander]

Imo, the whole thing reeks of ignorance.  Just a complete lack of knowledge on the subject in general.

[CS Foltz]

lake.......it is bad enough that we are busy wasting money on "One More Survey" but to rehash what has already been written and to top it off with a TU story that is somewhat slanted is flat ludicrious! The TU story has current Administration hoof prints all over it from my view and make me wonder just who and why? I mean any rail system would probably use concrete ties and Herb could really use the money so whats the deal?

[tufsu1]

let me tell you folks...$400k was VERY CHEAP for a study like that....when the Request for Proposals came out, my firm and several others looked at it and were concerned that the work involved could be almost twice that amount....so many firms didn't even submit.

I agree with those of you who think that some things seem so logical that "expensive" studies aren't necessary....but the problem is, you need data and professional analysis to back up even the most obvious theories....and if you don't spend that money properly upfront, you'll spend far more down the road.

One fine example is the 4 years and $2+ million that was just spent in Tallahassee to conclude that widening an existing road was a cheaper, more environmentally sound solution than building a whole new road....there were many people in the community (including public officials) who really thought the new road was a better solution....much of the study money and time was spent on public meetings and workshops to make sure that everyone understood the projected effects of all the potential options.

[CS Foltz]

tufsu1 then I have to ask...........why was the study just a rehash of existing reports that date back over 4 years at least that I know of? If study after study comes to the same conclusion (s) and just rewords past studies, and MJ outlooks, study is of no use? New conclusions make sense but the same thing time after time seems to me to be a waste of effort! Outcome of the Pennsylvania Study was predetermined was it not? I mean that nothing new was pointed out and the same conclusions were stated once again.

[tufsu1]

CS...the study was no rehash....in fact, MetroJax started talking about commuter rail in 2006...and JTA initiated this study in 2007....and while some people could clearly see that the existing rail lines could be used, no other study identified station locations, ROW issues, potential ridership, estimated costs, etc.

And I'm sure you're also upset because it was a "Pennsylvania" study...fact is the firm's HQ are in Pennsylvania, but they have a local office here and do most of their transportation planning studies from Tampa.

How about you take the time to read the study when it comes out before criticizing it too much?