Downtown's Most Endangered Historic Buildings

[GENTRY]

um.  I think the entire point of the historical movement is to celebrate what things were---not just what they are.  To build in the best memories of where we come from socially and historically with new uses as we go forward.

One wonders what your definition of historic would be in the first place?

It would be nice to celebrate what was but that's not always going to be the reality. Where money is involved, history doesn't always matter. Talk to our prior city officials or any of the countless contractors who bailed on countless projects. I would love to see parts of downtown preserved and renovated but emotions aside, do you really think the abandoned Ford plant is historical? How about the subterranean walkway? If you or anyone does think so, I have a pet rock to sell you.

[JeffreyS]

The ford plant is certainly a big part of our history in light of the role it played in destroying our streetcar system.

You do not need to tell people in Jax that sometimes money causes historical buildings not to be preserved. We have seen the destruction more than we should.

[GENTRY]

Oooooh you've done it now

Sometimes, the effort to respond is not even worth it.  For me, this is one of those times.  Either you get it or you don't.

Yes thelakelander, you're correct. You either get it or you don't. Apparently you don't. You've been around long enough and have been writing as long. You might need reminding of how many contractors and principals have approached the city over the last 25 years regarding restoring and/or renovating historical landmarks and buildings. How many times has the Ambassador Hotel been on the verge of being renovated only to have the project fall through the cracks? I know you know or have an idea.

How about the Trio as it's known? You have a clue how many contractors and principals have had great visions for these three buildings? You must know, you talk up a great storm.

Okay how about the Barnett National Bank building? Got any idea the amount of defunct projects it's gone through? I remember the day the clock went black over the building. How about you?

Let's see what you know about the Jones Bros. Furniture building or perhaps the Guaranty Trust and Savings Bank. Well okay we know the latter has a jaguar caged within it's walls. But do you care to take a guess how many deals have gone South regarding these buildings?

Shall I go on? Emotionally I would love to see many of these and other buildings and landmarks restored or renovated. But where you don't get it is when it comes to business and money the owners and contractors don't give a damn about emotion or history.

Yes I get it. Now I know you don't.

[GENTRY]

The ford plant is certainly a big part of our history in light of the role it played in destroying our streetcar system.

You do not need to tell people in Jax that sometimes money causes historical buildings not to be preserved. We have seen the destruction more than we should.

At least you understand that money is King. That's the language of politicians, contractors and owners. Emotions is the language of preservation societies. We who think of it emotionally don't have much to say when it pertains to what the wrecking ball will ravage.

What I don't understand is why people think fondly of a defunct Ford plant that, as you say, brought about the end of Jacksonville's streetcar days? What should we do with this empty giant? Have Ford open it again? Make it a huge night club? Perhaps one immense loft. The best anyone can hope for on this parcel of land is another industrial enterprise that might create some much needed jobs.

Like I've said here and other places. Some things are historical and some things are just old.

[Mad Cowford]

It's easy to be frustrated at plans falling through for restorations and new construction, but I don't understand the hostility at talking about restoration.
Here and around the country there have been plenty of "loving" restorations where owners and contractors cared about emotion and history as they restored their building.   
I'd rather a defunct restoration project that leaves a building there for the next person than a defunct knock-it-down-to-replace it which leaves a vacant lot. 

[thelakelander]

Oooooh you've done it now

Sometimes, the effort to respond is not even worth it.  For me, this is one of those times.  Either you get it or you don't.

Yes thelakelander, you're correct. You either get it or you don't. Apparently you don't. You've been around long enough and have been writing as long. You might need reminding of how many contractors and principals have approached the city over the last 25 years regarding restoring and/or renovating historical landmarks and buildings. How many times has the Ambassador Hotel been on the verge of being renovated only to have the project fall through the cracks? I know you know or have an idea.

How about the Trio as it's known? You have a clue how many contractors and principals have had great visions for these three buildings? You must know, you talk up a great storm.

Okay how about the Barnett National Bank building? Got any idea the amount of defunct projects it's gone through? I remember the day the clock went black over the building. How about you?

Let's see what you know about the Jones Bros. Furniture building or perhaps the Guaranty Trust and Savings Bank. Well okay we know the latter has a jaguar caged within it's walls. But do you care to take a guess how many deals have gone South regarding these buildings?

Shall I go on? Emotionally I would love to see many of these and other buildings and landmarks restored or renovated. But where you don't get it is when it comes to business and money the owners and contractors don't give a damn about emotion or history.

Yes I get it. Now I know you don't.

I've been in the industry long enough to know that it takes some projects longer than others for renovation to happen.  For many, it also takes a combination of local and federal grants and tax breaks to make preservation feasible.  However, as long as they are structurally sound, just because some investment group's projects fall through is not enough reason to demo them, imo. 

I've seen several highrise projects (I don't really consider the Ambassador "highrise") sit abandoned and in worse condition than the Ambassador, end up finally being renovated after decades of failed attempts.  I've seen others that did not make it.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so I'm not going to knock your belief but I'm not drinking your kool aid.

[thelakelander]

The history of the the Terrace Hotel's path to restoration sounds pretty similar to the path older buildings face in Jacksonville.  The key will be to see if they can make it past the call for demolition by those who can't see the feasibility or reason to preserve them.  Judging from the rest of country, some will make it, some won't.  In Lakeland, the Terrace is one of the buildings that made it after years of calls for demolition and failed renovation attempts.  Since 1999, its become a central anchor in DT Lakeland, which happens to be more vibrant than DT Jax now.

The city finally ordered the Terrace closed for building code violations in late 1986.  It remained closed for 12 years, looming like some dark presence over Lakeland's downtown.  Many proposals were made, and rejected, for its renovation and reuse over the years.  More than one city official called for its demolition. 

Finally,  in 1996, Houston developer and Lakeland native Rob Scharar purchased the Terrace for $150,000 from the Lakeland Downtown Development Authority. His plan was to restore the Terrace to its former grandeur as a first class hotel.  Nearly three years and $7 million later that dream was realized, as the beautifully restored Lakeland Terrace Hotel reopened on February 26, 1999.

http://www.lakelandgov.net/library/oldspeccoll/hotels/terrace.htm

[thelakelander]

About 20 miles east of Lakeland, the old Palm Crest Hotel in Haines City followed a similar path.  It sat empty for decades before being restored into college dorms for Landmark Baptist College in 1997.



With projects like this, you normally have to get creative in thinking about new uses.  Not everything has to be an apartment, condo or office complex.  Sometimes the numbers can work with mixed uses or uncommon uses (ex. the Palm Crest restoration in Haines City). 

They also require public/private partnerships to make them feasible, unless they are located in vibrant areas of vibrant cities.  For example, in the mid 1990s, Lakeland offered Publix a $1/year lease, for 20 years, for an abandoned JCPenney store in the heart of DT. 

This 1996 project consisted of completely removing all interior improvements from a 20 year old, 2-story Department building and transforming it into state of the art Accounting and Information Technology offices totaling 100,000 SF.

http://www.mesgc.com/publix-lakeland.php

The visionless soul would have questioned a deal like this.  However, 15 years later, giving away a building to get some of Publix's headquarter to come to DT Lakeland led to that city swiftly turning around from an abandoned blighted vagrant magnet to a vibrant place with walkable streets lined by retailers, restaurants and bars (They also did the same thing for another company to move their headquarters into the core, in a former Burdines department store building).  So the question really becomes, how important is a community's history to that community?  Those that value their past, work extra hard and get creative to preserve as much of it as possible.  Those that don't, only come up with excuses of why things won't work and fall in love with dynamite.

[GENTRY]

Oooooh you've done it now

Sometimes, the effort to respond is not even worth it.  For me, this is one of those times.  Either you get it or you don't.

Yes thelakelander, you're correct. You either get it or you don't. Apparently you don't. You've been around long enough and have been writing as long. You might need reminding of how many contractors and principals have approached the city over the last 25 years regarding restoring and/or renovating historical landmarks and buildings. How many times has the Ambassador Hotel been on the verge of being renovated only to have the project fall through the cracks? I know you know or have an idea.

How about the Trio as it's known? You have a clue how many contractors and principals have had great visions for these three buildings? You must know, you talk up a great storm.

Okay how about the Barnett National Bank building? Got any idea the amount of defunct projects it's gone through? I remember the day the clock went black over the building. How about you?

Let's see what you know about the Jones Bros. Furniture building or perhaps the Guaranty Trust and Savings Bank. Well okay we know the latter has a jaguar caged within it's walls. But do you care to take a guess how many deals have gone South regarding these buildings?

Shall I go on? Emotionally I would love to see many of these and other buildings and landmarks restored or renovated. But where you don't get it is when it comes to business and money the owners and contractors don't give a damn about emotion or history.

Yes I get it. Now I know you don't.

I've been in the industry long enough to know that it takes some projects longer than others for renovation to happen.  For many, it also takes a combination of local and federal grants and tax breaks to make preservation feasible.  However, as long as they are structurally sound, just because some investment group's projects fall through is not enough reason to demo them, imo. 

I've seen several highrise projects (I don't really consider the Ambassador "highrise") sit abandoned and in worse condition than the Ambassador, end up finally being renovated after decades of failed attempts.  I've seen others that did not make it.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so I'm not going to knock your belief but I'm not drinking your kool aid.

What industry have you been in, blogging? Read my other posts on urban issues and you "might" pick up on how the industry really works. Once again I'll tell you it would be nice to see many of the downtown historical buildings and landmarks restored/renovated but until greed isn't the driving factor, projects won't get the green light.

You don't quite understand that comparing other cities like Lakeland is irrelevant. Perhaps there's less corruption. Perhaps owners are not as greedy. Perhaps the city government is more willing to work with the principals involved. You obviously don't know the countless factors that are involved in getting these projects off and running. You just blog about it.

Sorry it's strictly water for me, no acid laced Kool-Aid. I'll leave the cloudy mind to bloggers who don't understand business.

[thelakelander]

What industry have you been in, blogging?

Yes.  However, if it really matters, I pay my bills through the architectural and planning industry.  Over the years, I've done quite a few projects, ranging from historic restorations and manufacturing facilities to community planning, infill development, marinas and amusement park and even quite a few Jax strip malls.  Now I'm taking a stab at integrating land use with transportation planning.

[jason_contentdg]

Wow, just wow.

[JeffreyS]

If Eddie Farah wants to renovate the Ambassador I would not bet against it being done.

[Dog Walker]

Eddie may be an ambulance chasing, TV lawyer, but he's OUR ambulance chasing, TV lawyer and we love him.  Local boy made good!

[TheProfessor]

Eddie Farah needs to make up for knocking down the Lerner building.

[JeffreyS]

The Ambassador would more than compensate.