There Are Amtrak Haters Out There

[FayeforCure]

Hmm.   Any concrete positions or rail corridors that you would favor aside from the tampa orlando connection?

That's funny,.........I've seen Mica's single-minded focus on the CSX central Florida commuter rail being hailed on this board.

And the fact that I see three projects of priority, in addition to a rework of the CSX central florida commuter rail deal, I think is enough for now.

I'd also really like the light rail effort in Orlando to be revived.

[thelakelander]

Without Amtrak, under our current proposition, there is no city wide transit.  Just a downtown system that may or may not connect to one of the suburbs.

Without funding there is no Amtrak.

see my post above about Sunrail's impact on the SW commuter rail corridor.

In the current round of funding for Amtrak, there are no provisions for Jacksonville and our Transit Agency at our behest has been  working to get Jacksonville included.

That's a local issue.  Mica has nothing to do with getting Amtrak back in DT Jax.  His district does not even extend that far.  DT Jax is Brown's territory.  

congressional District 7


Nevertheless, if we can't convince Amtrak to move back DT as a part of the plan, we still benefit on the FEC corridor by them having to make track capacity improvements and adding a station in St. Augustine to get underway.

The Obama administration pumped 8 billion into Amtrak.   There are a billion dollars more per year set aside for the next four years.  And there is a comprehensive plan being put together by Amtrak to push even more into the rollout of a national system.  Because of our position they have to include us, but the wheels to the process we set in motion are only now beginning to roll.

Those are the facts.

Here is another fact, the $8 billion you're talking about is not completely geared towards Amtrak.  However, since Amtrak is in the business of intercity rail, there are Amtrak related projects that they can possibly tap into with HSR dollars.  The FEC project is a good example.

The other source (which is probably more important than the HSR stimulus dollars) is the Passenger Rail Improvement Act (H.R. 6003) that has passed last year.  It gives Amtrak an additional $14 billion dollars between 2009 and 2013. $2.5 billion of that is for new state passenger corridors.

[thelakelander]

Feel free.   You can start with Sunrail.  Its the closet rail project to Jax that has a direct impact on our plans.

Here is a link to start your due diligence search: www.sunrail.com

[thelakelander]

Faye, here is a link to the Orlando LRT plan I mentioned a couple of posts ago:

http://www.sunrail.com/nslightrail.asp

[thelakelander]

I prefer to ask the congressman.

That should be done too.  But a little research and background knowledge before hand would make for a better converstation with the congressman.

[FayeforCure]

Also, Sunrail did not replace Orlando's LRT plan.  They have been designed to complement one another.  I'll see if I can find a map showing both together.

Orlando's LRT plan was about to be revived, when the commuter line started to be pitched by Mica.

Sure,.........EVERYTHING has become contigent upon the CSX commuter rail, or so we've been led to believe.

No other plans were to be discussed etc. Mica even threatened that if people didn't support his pet project, they could kiss any future federal dollars goodbye.

[thelakelander]

The light rail plan was estimated to cost $1.3 billion in 2002 with an additional $160 million a year for annual O&M costs.  Judging from Tampa's crazy $5.2 billion estimate for LRT, the Orlando system would probably cost a lot more today.  

Imo, its better to prioritize and get one component of a regional vision through properly instead of spreading resources out to the point where nothing actually happens at the end of the day.  Nevertheless, the state can't even get behind Mica's commuter rail plan or commit to fundind Tri-Rail.  If its considered too expensive, light rail does not have a chance.

[FayeforCure]

Whats your source to backup those threats from Mica, Faye? 

By now, you must have figured out that I can back up my statements. So here goes:

Why would Tampa be left out?

When you don't have a project, the money goes somewhere else. In Tampa, you've got one short streetcar line. Of the 27 largest metropolitan statistical areas, only Orlando, northern Ohio and southern Kentucky don't really have fixed-transit systems.

Tampa can wrap itself up in a cocoon and not participate, but the rest of the country is going to do an economic stimulus package, and a big part of it will be infrastructure.

Why did you threaten earlier this year to cut off federal transportation money for Tampa if Florida didn't approve the Orlando rail plan?

I think I was rather strong in my commitment, but I never threatened to cut anybody totally off.

I am more inclined to support everyone who supports solutions. I've encouraged everybody, not just in Tampa but around the state, to try to get some resolutions to things that are stopping us from moving forward.

I couldn't think of a worse time in Florida for a major project to fail. Everyone's competing for money and time and approval.

My threat isn't that Mica's going to do this. My statement is if we don't do this, we're going to look awfully foolish. The last thing we need is for our projects to move farther behind because we have no credibility.

If they see us not getting our act together, they'll step over you so quickly it'll make your head spin.

I'm well-positioned right now. I'll be the most powerful person on the Republican side on transportation in the country come Jan. 20.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/dec/14/co-getting-rail-out-of-the-station/

[thelakelander]

So who's right?

I think I was rather strong in my commitment, but I never threatened to cut anybody totally off.

I am more inclined to support everyone who supports solutions. I've encouraged everybody, not just in Tampa but around the state, to try to get some resolutions to things that are stopping us from moving forward.

I couldn't think of a worse time in Florida for a major project to fail. Everyone's competing for money and time and approval.

My threat isn't that Mica's going to do this. My statement is if we don't do this, we're going to look awfully foolish. The last thing we need is for our projects to move farther behind because we have no credibility.

If they see us not getting our act together, they'll step over you so quickly it'll make your head spin.

Is there any truth to this position?

[FayeforCure]

So who's right?

I think I was rather strong in my commitment, but I never threatened to cut anybody totally off.

I am more inclined to support everyone who supports solutions. I've encouraged everybody, not just in Tampa but around the state, to try to get some resolutions to things that are stopping us from moving forward.

I couldn't think of a worse time in Florida for a major project to fail. Everyone's competing for money and time and approval.

My threat isn't that Mica's going to do this. My statement is if we don't do this, we're going to look awfully foolish. The last thing we need is for our projects to move farther behind because we have no credibility.

If they see us not getting our act together, they'll step over you so quickly it'll make your head spin.

Is there any truth to this position?

Ah, but thelakelander, you're ok with your Representative saying: "I never threatened to cut anybody totally off"

Just a little at a time, death by a thousand cuts for Amtrak.

But I'm done here. You have been an even stronger defender on Mica's non-accomplishment on rail in Florida, than Ock,........and that really says something.

[thelakelander]

I'm not a Republican, he's not my Representative, I'm not in his district.  I just don't hate the guy the way you do.  I may not know or care about him as much as you, but I do believe he is a strong supporter of commuter rail and the least of our concerns, when it comes to improving rail transit in Jacksonville. 

So my defense of him in this thread has more to do with wanting us to maintain our focus on those who have a stronger impact locally on getting rail based transit established in Jacksonville.  When I look at this situation from that angle, Mica continues to be the least of our concerns in this fight for better mass transit.

Now with that side, it you can prove that he's actively working to kill Jacksonville's commuter rail and streetcar plans or is working to keep the state from partnering with Amtrak, I'd quickly jump to your side on this issue.

[thelakelander]

Btw, if I was in position to give an entity taxpayer money and they didn't have their act together, I'd limit the amount of money given to them as well.  If we had done that locally over the last decade, the city would not be in the financial situation it is in today. 

[FayeforCure]

Btw, if I was in position to give an entity taxpayer money and they didn't have their act together, I'd limit the amount of money given to them as well.  If we had done that locally over the last decade, the city would not be in the financial situation it is in today. 

In an earlier post in this thread I showed you the miracle of what happens when you adequately fund a government entity such as the VA,......it is now THE best healthcare system in the US, outperforming any other.

Keeping Amtrak anorexic isn't a prescription for success. I personally believe that who you support to represent your area makes a huge difference for your area, in particular when it comes to transportation.

[thelakelander]

Btw, if I was in position to give an entity taxpayer money and they didn't have their act together, I'd limit the amount of money given to them as well.  If we had done that locally over the last decade, the city would not be in the financial situation it is in today. 

In an earlier post in this thread I showed you the miracle of what happens when you adequately fund a government entity such as the VA,......it is now THE best healthcare system in the US, outperforming any other.

Keeping Amtrak anorexic isn't a prescription for success. I personally believe that who you support to represent your area makes a huge difference for your area, in particular when it comes to transportation.

Speaking about things in general, I think funding only gets you so far.  If you have a bad plan (ex. Florida HSR, downtown Jax revitalization, etc.), sometimes you have to overcome issues that have nothing to do with money if your ultimate goal is success. 

[thelakelander]

True, but you don't throw money into a burning pit before figuring out solutions for viability.  That's the type of stuff that ended up with Jax sprawling all over Duval County and now not being able to pay for its unsustainable decades old growth decisions.

That's why I asked the question about Mica's idea of privatizing Amtrak earlier.  How would this be done to make the private sector want to invest in such a system?  Is there a feasible solution out there that can make rail transit better through public/private partnerships?