There Are Amtrak Haters Out There

[FayeforCure]

John Mica at Jacksonville Terminal speaking about the benefits of commuter rail.

Commuter Rail Demonstration visits Jacksonville

Lunican, I don't know how I missed your post. No doubt Mica will go stomping to promote a private company.

Problem is Colorado Railcar was run by a scam artist by the name of Tom Rader.

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=42360&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=45#p587125

They've gone bankrupt after milking Florida out of millions of dollars.

Conveniently the announcement came after the 2008 elections.

[thelakelander]

Faye, how much did Florida lose to Colorado Railcar?

[civil42806]

I think Stephen's point is if you subsidize rail in a similar fashion, you'll have the same or better results.  As for the comparison, flying is great unless your trips happen to be around 200 miles or less.  Intercity rail can be superior in this arena with proper investment.

This is correct. And let me add that it behooves citizens to understand who it is that truly believes in public transportation as a service Government should be subsidizing. Only those who BELIEVE in government's role to facilitate the achievement of individual opportunities, (not just to facilitate corporations) are those that can be trusted as leaders in achieving a functional public transportation system.

Those who are hostile to governnment's role in anything but national defense and subsidies to private corporations, are just not up to the job.

You have to love this stuff!!  do people really talk like that?

[FayeforCure]

Faye, how much did Florida lose to Colorado Railcar?

I can answer that, but that's not the main point. I personally think it's a conflict of interest for him to be promoting a particular company on tax-payer time.

[thelakelander]

Understood, but can you answer it?  I'd like to know.

[Ocklawaha]

It's a BUS? It's a Train? What on earth? This could be one of the daily or weekend treks to Gainesville, and UF to JAX.

Faye, how much did Florida lose to Colorado Railcar?

I can answer that, but that's not the main point. I personally think it's a conflict of interest for him to be promoting a particular company on tax-payer time. Faye, you need to back off on this subject, CRC was the ONLY builder of North American/USA rail passenger cars in the last decade. It's not like Mica, or YOU would have had a chance to change it.

Understood, but can you answer it?  I'd lhisike to know.

One of many planning maps for Amtrak service. Note the routes to Atlanta, Birmingham and the Gulf Coast, as well as restoration of the Central Florida (OCALA) route! This is from planning and does NOT equal the routes created by all expansion. However Gainesville to Shands as well as the Jacksonville Terminal would probably be bursting at the seams.

Okay guys, I understand this delima if Faye, is our representative in Congress or Senate or , ,if it's Mica, or someone else. Bottom line, the Colorado Railcar DMU, was the result of a bunch of Pseudo Rail car builders gathering together and turning out a few first class scenic coaches. As often happens with new companies, they jumped into the DUM/RDC void and tried to sell themselves as the "New BUDD COMPANY." Budd having introduced the stainless steel streamlined coach in the 1930's, at Red Lion, PA.. The ONLY downfall was TOO MUCH - TOO FAST. Otherwise they would be considering shops in Jacksonville. So would Edwards Rail Car, (anyone at the C of C should take note and start the recruitment). In the end the many demonstrations but lack of hard orders killed the small company that held so much promise.

I admit I wasn't impressed with their product and did a story on the subject. I took one of those DMU's up to 80 MPH north of Pompano Beach, and it sounded horrible. My article was largely to get rid of the Plastic Airline interior and go back to rail basics of stainless steel and hardwoods.

The concept of the DMU of RDC (Diesel Motor Unit or Rail Diesel Car,) is a self propelled Amtrak like coach that could take the run from Gainesville to Jacksonville. Such units might prove financially sound in the running of the Jax - Tallahassee route as well. As well as any WEST COAST mainline that might be rebuilt, which would ease Tampa's woes.

ONE that is fair MUST CUT SOME SLACK here to the Republicans and Democrats that have been toying with Amtrak for 30+ years. Until recently, we haven't had a car builder in America! We had a very short list of Locomotive Builders, and our Bus Industry has taken such a beating as to almost be off the radar for ANYONE!

The interesting part is how do we save these industries? How does the Chamber of Commerce recruit them to build their shops here? Free rent in Springfield Yard? Hey, It COULD happen! The bottom line, like I have been saying all along is that Amtrak is fixing to toss an expansion at us that will boggle the mind. WE MUST BE READY!

Faye, thank you for bringing this up, we need to understand that we are sitting at 1870 again, and we can either take charge, or let Sanford, Orlando, Tampa, or Miami take it from us. We simply cannot allow Amtrak or any other carrier (Virgin Atlantic, Cruise Lines etc...) dictate terms of expansion to us. JTA, FDOT, JPA, JAA, COJ, the time to act was yesterday, shit or get off the pot!

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Faye and Ock both have points that I must agree with! I am not sure who funded a survey regarding the I-4 corridor as being a viable point to start. Orlando to St Pete seems kinda silly to me..........why start in the middle? Then expansion would have to take place in two directions at twice the cost and seems counter productive to me! Jacksonville should be a start point, not because I live here, but because there is trackage in place for 3 directions of movement! That's just my take!

[tufsu1]

Faye, how much did Florida lose to Colorado Railcar?

I can answer that, but that's not the main point. I personally think it's a conflict of interest for him to be promoting a particular company on tax-payer time.

Faye, you would be much more credible if it didn't seem like you were always ripping Mica about something

[buckethead]

She's campaigning. In fairness, she's going with what works.

Should she gain traction, you'll be seeing the same from Mica.

[thelakelander]

If she is campaigning, her argument would be much stronger by promoting her position, vision and goals.  Continuing to slam someone else without fully selling your vision and platform will lead to that person ending up choking on their opponent's dust, come election day.  Look to McCain and Palin for proof of this phenomenon.

[buckethead]

You make good points. It seems demagoguery would be less effective on a forum such as this.

WHen you mention McCain/Palin they had no platform. Obama used slogans and emotion to win, while equating McCain to Bush, who was his Mica, in this comparison.

Faye is following this "strategery".

[FayeforCure]

She's campaigning. In fairness, she's going with what works.

Should she gain traction, you'll be seeing the same from Mica.

Thanks buckethead. I think people are quite informed about where I stand.

Though I fell short, I believe with almost 150,000 votes, much more than Mica received in 2006, I established quite some credibility.

The real problem is mis-placed credibility, such as when Peyton ran for mayor and people thought he could run Jacksonville, because he ran Gate.

This kind of "surface" thinking leads to more tax-payer waste than anything else. The mis-placed credibility was eventually revealed in Peyton's case, because there were people who believe in accountability to the tax-payer.

In that same way I enjoy engaging in a conversation that at times will reveal information with local impact, that feels uncomfortable to some who prefer "surface" thinking,....... but as an educator I like to be thought provoking.

[buckethead]

I am skeptical when poeple go from Business to government. If I'm making millions in the private sector, why would I be motivated to take such a paycut? Advantage in being connected or in control?

I am equally skeptical of carrer politicians. Advantage in being connected or in control?

The scariest of all is the person coming from a charitable cause.

Can there actually be a good politician? I invite someone to persuade me of this.   If so, how can an average person such as myself know, without having to become politically active?

Everyone cannot become political to the degree of having first hand knowledge of all issues. Even politicians.

[FayeforCure]

Faye, how much did Florida lose to Colorado Railcar?

I'll post an article that summarizes the goings on with Colorado Railcar in Florida:

Commuter Rail Falters Again As Supplier Fails
By LINDSAY PETERSON

lpeterson@tampatrib.com

Published: January 11, 2009


When Florida Department of Transportation officials chose a Colorado company early last year to build 10 railcars for its new Orlando commuter system, they knew the company was in financial trouble.

Nevertheless, the department moved forward with the $45 million contract, and is having to scramble now that Colorado Railcar went out of business at the end of the year. The state had to rewrite the railcar proposal to get new companies to bid.

The last-minute change is one more stumble in the state's controversial efforts to bring commuter rail to Orlando. Last May, state lawmakers rejected an agreement with CSX Transportation, the company planning to sell tracks to the state for the $1.2 billion, 61-mile system. The agreement would have freed CSX from responsibility if one of its trains caused a commuter accident while using the tracks.

State DOT officials are working on getting the CSX track purchase approved this year. They said they didn't realize how serious Colorado Railcar's problems were until October, when the company failed to provide the performance bond the state required.

The state originally advertised the railcar bid invitation in February. It was so narrowly written that Colorado Railcar was the only company that qualified. In a Tampa Tribune story about the purchase, state officials said the company produced precisely the kind of railcar it wanted for the Orlando system. It's a fuel-efficient vehicle that combines the engine and seating in one unit but is also sturdy enough to withstand a collision with a freight train. The revised bid is for the more traditional locomotive-hauled train.

One of Colorado Railcar's proponents is U.S. Rep. John Mica, R-Winter Park, also a major supporter of the Orlando commuter rail system. Mica helped Florida get federal grants in 2003 and 2004 to buy six Colorado Railcar vehicles for South Florida's commuter rail system - with plans that the railcars be moved to Orlando later. They cost $20 million, which included money from the state.

Florida is still waiting for one of its six cars, said Bonnie Arnold, of South Florida's TriRail. "At last report, it was in Texas, on its way to us." But it's unfinished. It still needs interior modifications, including electrical work, she said.

Arnold is also concerned about how the specially built cars will be maintained, with the company out of business. She said five Colorado Railcar maintenance workers based in South Florida will likely be kept on as employees either of TriRail or the state DOT.

Mica defended his support for Colorado Railcar in an earlier Tribune story, saying it had created an innovative fuel-efficient vehicle. He knew the company was having business problems but didn't know the details, he said.

The company's founder, Tom Rader, gave Mica's political campaigns a total of $3,000 in 2004 and 2005. Mica said the contributions had nothing to do with his support for the company.

Florida's DOT was the first transportation agency to buy commuter rail vehicles from Colorado Railcar. A Portland, Ore., agency, TriMet, followed with a $17 million order for four cars. But it learned in mid-2007 that the company was behind schedule and having trouble paying suppliers, said Tuck Wilson, TriMet's special counsel managing the project.

In early 2008 problems at Colorado Railcar were so bad, TriMet took over the company's finances to ensure the completion of its order. Wilson said he notified Florida officials and asked whether they wanted to join the receivership, but the state declined.

TriMet ended up getting all its railcars, but it cost the agency an additional $5.5 million.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/jan/11/na-commuter-rail-falters-again-as-supplier-fails/

To use Ock's lingo: I smell a RAT.

Mica's push for Colorado Railcar may have been a catalyst for Orlando to drop prioritizing the revival of its light rail plans:

Orlando, Fla.-Area Leaders Test Ride New Commuter Rail Car.
Free with registration - Orlando Sentinel - AccessMyLibrary.com - Oct 26, 2002
John Mica, R-Winter Park, and Lynx, the area's transit agency, to show off a new commuter-rail car manufactured in Colorado. The event cost Lynx about $5000 ...

[FayeforCure]

thelakelander,.......some more background on how Colorado Railcar came about with Mica's help:

One of the Colorado Railcar lobbyists was Duane Gibson, former chief aid to U.S. Rep. Don Young, R-Alaska, who was chairman of the House Transportation Committee from 2001 to 2007. Gibson continued to represent the company after he left the law firm.

Mica said he was never approached by any lobbyist about the company. If anything, Mica said, he approached Gibson after Gibson left the transportation committee.

"I spoke to Duane about Colorado Railcar," Mica said. "I can't remember if they were looking for someone to represent them or what." He also can't remember precisely when it was, but he said he is sure Gibson was not at Greenberg, Traurig at the time.

In late 2003, the federal government picked the South Florida Regional Transportation Authority to carry out the demonstration project described in the congressional earmark. The authority then picked Colorado Railcar to provide the vehicles.

Despite being credited for setting up the Colorado Railcar project in South Florida, Mica now says his role was only to encourage the House Appropriations Committee to pursue the DMU technology. He said he did not ask for money for any individual company. Nevertheless, he was happy that Colorado Railcar was eventually selected, he said.

"I was encouraging that Colorado Railcar be demonstrated anywhere in the United States," Mica said.

In 2006, when Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, CSX officials and Mica announced the plans to buy 61 miles of CSX tracks for the Orlando area commuter system, the group rode a Colorado Railcar DMU into Orlando.
DOT officials say several companies were interested in the $45 million state contract advertised in February, though in the end only Colorado Railcar submitted a bid.

One of the potential bidders was a Korean company, Rotem, that designs crash-worthy DMUs and has a U.S. plant. It was planning to build cars for the Raleigh, N.C., commuter system until federal funding for that project fell through. Its cars, however, have only one level, and Florida officials said they need bilevel cars for the Orlando system.

Another company, Siemens, was also interested and proposed scheduling freight and commuter trains at different times so the state could use the company's lighter DMU. But the state said no, said Siemens' Frank Guzzo.

"There could have been other ways to approach the project. We had offered an alternative," Guzzo said. But the state "was fixated on this one approach."

Tom Rader founded Colorado Railcar and was removed as its president this year. Since 2003, Rader and his company have reported spending nearly $300,000 on lobbyists and federal campaign contributions. Rader gave Mica's political campaigns a total of $3,000 for 2004 and 2005.

Mica angrily denied that lobbying or campaign contributions had anything to do with his position. "My relationship with the company has been nothing but above the board," he said. The company spent its own money developing a new kind of fuel-efficient railcar and deserves government help, Mica said.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jul/20/200015/na-railcar-deal-missing-key-component-the-tracks/c_2/#comments