Rail in Tampa Bay - TBARTA Style

[CS Foltz]

I have to question the survey that shows Orlando to St Pete is the best place to start a pilot program of any type! Who did they ask and how were the questions slanted or worded? Most of this Forum members recognize how a question is worded means much in how the answer is given in reply! I am not convinced that particular area is anymore exploitable than say Tallahassee to Gainsville or Jacksonville to Miami!

[JeffreyS]

How can we look at this image and think Jacksonville is not the place for Florida's rail plans to start?




I smell a rat! I do love Disney and do not blame them for trying to influence things to be best for there company but any rail plan would eventually get to them.

[tufsu1]

Jeffrey...this map is a compilation of corridors that have been outlined by Amtrak or states previouly.

There is no rat....Disney didn't push the Florida HSR constituional amendment that passed in 2000....the referendum language required HSR to connect the 5 largest urban areas in the state....those were determined to be Tampa Bay, Orlando, West Palm Beach, Ft. lauderdale, and Miami.

Remember that at the time of the referendum, there was very little movement on HSR nationally....of course, now that times have changed, it is important to make sure that an Orlando-Jax leg is added....but it doesn't need to be first since the other routes in the southeast are nowhere near "shovel ready". 

[tufsu1]

I have to question the survey that shows Orlando to St Pete is the best place to start a pilot program of any type! Who did they ask and how were the questions slanted or worded? Most of this Forum members recognize how a question is worded means much in how the answer is given in reply! I am not convinced that particular area is anymore exploitable than say Tallahassee to Gainsville or Jacksonville to Miami!

Again CS Foltz...you often comment on a "lack of planning or vision"....the worst thing we could do here would be to build our first HSR line to connect Tallahassee and Gainesville....for several reasons:

1. 350,000 live in the Tally metro area and 250,000 in Gainesville metro area
       Compare with 3 million in Tampa Bay and 2 million in Orlando
2. Little road congestion from Tally to Gainesville
3. HSR nationally is partiallly designed to minimize short-leg airplane trips (free up airspace)
        There are no flights between Tally and Gainesville
        Agreed theree are also none from Tampa to Orlando
        But there are between Tampa-Miami and Orlando-Miami

[Ocklawaha]

Anyone that spends any time on the HSR corridor websites will find that the Gulf Coast Corridor, "Atlanta - Mobile - NOL - Houston" also has an eye on a Mobile - Jacksonville segment.

Southeast HSR Corridor, has not really fixed the Atlanta - Jax route, some maps show Atlanta-Savannah-Jax, others, Atlanta-Jessup-Jax, and still others (and the ONE that I would push) Atlanta-Macon-Valdosta-Jax.

Florida corridor maps, do have Jacksonville on them, but more like an afterthought. The worse thing about NOT starting in Jax, is we would be the only city in the USA with THREE distinct HSR corridors serving our Terminal. So it would make sense to start off where your major interchange, would locate your shops, and servicing facilities. Central to all three operations, and Jax would be America's Logistics Center and High Speed Rail Hub.

It "could" happen, but for the fantasy bullet trains, and BILLION dollar interurbans, don't hold your breath. When a $ reality check smacks these dreamers in the head, we'll go back to the railroad. AMTRAK or other corporations will be funded so they can raise track speeds and kill crossings. Meanwhile a hell of a lot of folks like at least 3 major posters on MJ, will get to play with the blocks and crayons, CHA CHING!

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

tufsu1..........I am much more cognizant of aircraft operations and maintenance than I am of train ops and the support there of. I concur regarding the population numbers for both area's compared to other area's in Florida! HSR and Light rail are two different options for two different problems. HSR is comparable to aircraft only if trip durations are 8 hours or more.......this is assuming point A to point B. Something time critical would utilize aircraft and HSR for a more leisurely trip but light rail is a 2 to 3 hour window and something else. I look at HSR for moving large numbers  which aircraft can not do and light rail for intercity (trolley/monorails) and intracity (commuter)so I guess this would be a 3 pronged approach to mass transit. All three systems use track and track that is in place now........not something that has to be installed in order to use. Expansion would require additional track to selected routes but I think we have enough track already in place to start something that would be cost effective and usable!

[buckethead]

Would Jacksonvillains be inclined to patronize this type of system?

Would it harm the asthetics of Riverside/Avondale or San Marco?


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/15/125349/941

[thelakelander]

Would Jacksonvillains be inclined to patronize this type of system?

Sure, as long as it efficiently serves and takes people to where they want to go.  This is exactly what JTA has proposed for Riverside to DT service.

Would it harm the asthetics of Riverside/Avondale or San Marco?

Both Riverside/Avondale and San Marco are streetcar suburbs.  Without streetcars, these neighborhoods would not be laid out or as walkable as the way they are today.  Streetcars would be more appropriate for them than the paved roads people drive on in those communities today.  If the paved roads have not harmed their character, neither will historically accurate streetcars.