FLORIDA EAST COAST TRAINS COMING!

[JeffreyS]

Mass transit is always penalized for partially paying it's own way. If like roads and other services it was just a money pit with no returns people would not measure it based on monetary returns.

[CS Foltz]

Properly run....rail atleast would be a break even proposition and with most of the rail system already in place a no brainer by my standards.....much cheaper than increasing roadways for sure! Ock I meant the "Costco" reference purely in jest......I did not know there were so many possible companies regarding engine and passenger car suppliers! Either way makes cents to me,we need to do it and soon!

[thelakelander]

Amtrak has already gone on record and stated that they could break even running s statewide corridor service, similar to what the do for California.  Unfortunately, we're more interested in building a tourist train in the median of I-4, than getting something that would benefit residents statewide for a fraction of the costs.

[CS Foltz]

Well ....if FDOT is involved you can just about bet it will be bloated and overbudget! Beginning to think that they should be excluded from any involvement regarding rail of anykind! Their domain is highway and they should stay out of the rail end!

[tufsu1]

I can virtualy guarantee that even the best run rail system would not "break even"....

For example, the DC Metro system, with high fares and even higher ridership, still doesn't even cover 60% of its costs through farebox revenues.....and guess what, in the wonderful city of Portland (you know the place that loves transit), their overall system recovers only about 25% of its costs through farebox revenues.

[Ocklawaha]

RIGHT TUFSU1. The national average numbers run like this, 75% of all Surface Passenger Transportation Cost is labor, and 25% of all income is farebox. These are the two biggest leaps for John Q Public, until they figure out that highways are ALL COST and NO RECOVERY.

Interesting because I was in the room with Lakelander when the Amtrak VP said they "Would break even" with 5 trains per route in Florida. That would equal 5 arrivals and 5 departures on every route?!

OCKLAWAHA

[FayeforCure]

Amtrak has already gone on record and stated that they could break even running s statewide corridor service, similar to what the do for California.  Unfortunately, we're more interested in building a tourist train in the median of I-4, than getting something that would benefit residents statewide for a fraction of the costs.

thelakelander, please stop calling HSR from Orlando to Tampa a tourist train. I just talked with Nazih Hadad, Manager, Passenger Rail Development, who told me that ridership studies have shown it to be a 50/50 proposition in terms of expected tourist vs non-tourist ridership.

Besides for every tourist we take off the road, we find relief for a local commuter.

I am ALSO a strong supporter for the Jax-Miami FEC-Amtrak line:

This is the Presentation I made, Jan. 28 in St Augustine, to State Senator Jim King, State Representative Proctor, and State Senator Tony Hill.

Maybe some of you can follow up, to show strong support for a rail project in our community that could quickly be realized.


Quote
Good Afternoon.

 

My name is Faye Armitage and I am speaking on behalf of concerned citizens in support of Public Transportation.

 

Before I even get into my specific suggestion for our area, I want to clarify how important transit is to any area, especially during periods of economic downturn. Just from an economic perspective, aside from the environmental perspective, providing rail transportation for commuters in our area is a must.

 

Rail consumes 21 percent less energy per passenger mile than cars, according to the Transportation Department. The huge potential for saving money on transportation would mean a great deal to people’s individual pocket books. It has been shown that in great transit areas people spend only 5 % of their income on transportation compared to an average of 20% or more currently spent by people to cover their transportation needs.

 

Money not spent on transportation needs will benefit our local economy as this money will be available for other consumption spending.

 

The projects that I propose will provide local construction jobs, and permanent jobs for additional support functions.

 

As many of you may be aware, and as has been reported in the Florida Times Union on Oct 24, Amtrak is planning to offer commuter rail on the Florida East Coast rail lines that parallel Interstate 95 from Jacksonville to Miami .

 

I am proposing that we ask Amtrak to plan for train stations in St Augustine and at the Nocatee/Racetrack junction.

 

For those who worry about lack of ridership, I’d like to point out that ridership increased  about 13 percent in the past year while revenues have increased almost 16%. Even with gas prices having dropped since July, the ridership levels have not dropped off. So once people try it, people stick with it.

 

In summary my proposal would provide local jobs, and benefit many who commute into Jacsonville from the Julington Creek, Nocatee and St Augusutine areas, while having a positive impact on our environment, and reducing rush-hour congestion on I-95.

 

Amtrak wants to pursue this route, but it won't do it unless the state supports it and partners with Amtrak. Let’s get our local support underway and work with the Florida DOT to make it happen. I would like to ask everyone here to do their share to help realize the two proposed Amtrak Stations on Amtrak’s planned Jacksonville to Miami commuter route.

 

Thank You.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,4616.0.html

[thelakelander]

It is what it is.  However, I'm open to debating on how it will or will not work for everyday Central Florida residents and their commuting needs.

[mtraininjax]

So I take it you're against this?

No, not against it, just wanting to see how it is paid for. Maybe no one here noticed the AP story on the White House having 9 TRILLION Dollars in deficits, all on the backs of the American tax payers. I do not know one society that survives by passing the buck to the next generation. At some point, the investment in the US debt will stop and when the music stops, the nations without as much debt will all have the chairs.

Sure, this is only a few hundred million for our train tracks from Jax to Miami, but where does it stop?

All major roads built in the next few years, should and will be toll roads. I can see the turnpike being extended and the Sun Pass being used on every major road project. Once the 95 corridor is 6-laned, as it is finishing in Brevard County, but still 2 lanes south, I can't see a need to expand that to 6-lanes. Not even I-10 is slated for 6-lanes, anytime soon.

Would I like to see a fast 5-6 hour trip on a train to Miami, I would, but would the millions of $$$ be better spent on something that would benefit more people, more Floridians? Water, roads, Schools, Prisons, we only have so much $$$, is this more important than the other needs?

[mtraininjax]

This is called 'investment'.

I'll have to remember that in my time capsule for my kids, kids, kids, kids. I'll educate them on the costs of war in coins and lives. Of course, by then, you will have written a great book on the whole matter. If the Mexicans don't find more TP soon, they can use it for what it really is.

[Ocklawaha]

Okay, no BULL here (yeah, I know it's Ock...but HONESTLY). Perhaps it is time for a few of us on MJ to state our postion. Here is mine:

I am going on record as being AGINST the Phase I, Orlando - Mickey - Tampa, MM High Speed Rail project. I will also be adding the why, and how, of this over in my jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com blog. Unless the following corrections are made, I WILL NOT SUPPORT IT:

1. An immediate application for expansion of intra-state Amtrak corridor trains, 5 each way daily between:

JAX - DAB - WPB - MIA
JAX - TLH - PNS - MSY (New Orleans)
JAX - MCO - LL - TPA
JAX - OCF -(route split) 2 continue to TPA, 3 continue to MIA
TPA - LAL - MCO - MIA
PIE - TPA - MCO - DED (Deland)
TPA - LAL - WPB - MIA
MCO - GIF - WPB - MIA

This equals about 200 trains daily spread from Miami to Tamap to Jax to New Orleans.

2. A partner commitment from GADOT, ALDOT, MSDOT etc... for the following long distance Amtrak routes.

JAX - SAV - CAE - CLT - DCA - NYC
JAX - SAV - CHS - RIC - DCA - NYC
JAX - SAV - CAE - RDU - RIC - DCA - NYC
JAX - VLD - MCN - ATL -CHA - CVG (with endpoint splits to: CHI - DET - CLE - BUF)
JAX - VLD - BHM - MEM - CHI (with mid route splits to STL)

This 2 round trip daily schedule calls for about 20 new Longer Distance regional trains.

3. Use of the current trackage of CSX - NS - FEC, doing upgrades as needed.

4. Complete reopening of Jacksonville Terminal and demolition of the exhibit area for transpotation use.

5. If and when the MMHSR is built, it must originate on regular, central city, Amtrak Routes, only leaving this right of way between city pairs.

Until the population is "TRAINED" I will not support MMHSR in Florida.

ANYONE ELSE CARE TO JOIN ME? SPEAK UP!

OCKLAWAHA

[Lunican]

I haven't reviewed all of the routes you listed, but I agree that Florida needs to get Amtrak corridor service up and running before high speed rail between Tampa and Orlando is discussed.

Amtrak can serve the entire state for a fraction of the cost.

[FayeforCure]

I haven't reviewed all of the routes you listed, but I agree that Florida needs to get Amtrak corridor service up and running before high speed rail between Tampa and Orlando is discussed.

Amtrak can serve the entire state for a fraction of the cost.

So, you don't think we can accomplish both simultaneously? God knows we sure do need the jobs!

[tufsu1]

some folks on here are looking at potential competition for highways w/ rail in terms of time....I can assure you that the current CSX route from Tampa to Orlando could not be easily upgraded for even mildly high speed service...we're looking at around 2 hours from downtown Tampa to downtown Orlando...assuming no traffic (which is a big assumption on I-4), I can do that drive in 1:15

The reality is interstates already have all of the grade separations...which is why putting rail down the median of I-4 isn't such a bad idea.....just got to make sure there is connecting infrastructure at the stations.

Plus, think about all the people in their cars that would see a high speed train pass them at up to twice the speed!

[FayeforCure]

some folks on here are looking at potential competition for highways w/ rail in terms of time....I can assure you that the current CSX route from Tampa to Orlando could not be easily upgraded for even mildly high speed service...we're looking at around 2 hours from downtown Tampa to downtown Orlando...assuming no traffic (which is a big assumption on I-4), I can do that drive in 1:15

The reality is interstates already have all of the grade separations...which is why putting rail down the median of I-4 isn't such a bad idea.....just got to make sure there is connecting infrastructure at the stations.

Plus, think about all the people in their cars that would see a high speed train pass them at up to twice the speed!

Thanks tufsu1,.......this is exactly why FDOT considers HSR as the SPINE or CORE system for Florida.

I am reminded of a quote I agree with whole-heartedly:

Just as the freeway spurred greater auto usage and auto centric development, high speed rail can and will spur more mass transit usage and rail connections to and from a major station.

We should not fear building HSR in cities without great mass transit systems. HSR can be the catalyst to improving mass transit.

Which does not mean we can't also be pushing for the Amtrak Jax-Miami FEC line simultaneously.