JEDC has grand designs for Metropolitan Park

[thelakelander]

Mayor backs plan, but spending $29 million on makeover will be politically difficult.

By David Bauerlein Story updated at 1:10 AM on Sunday, Aug. 9, 2009

The collapse of the real estate market chased off private developers who had shown dazzling plans for residential towers in downtown Jacksonville.

In their place, the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission has stepped forward with ideas for advancing downtown development by focusing city spending on public places - streets and parks.

The most costly proposal is for Metropolitan Park, the 32-acre park on the riverfront near Jacksonville Municipal Stadium. With backing from Mayor John Peyton, the JEDC wants the City Council to earmark about $29 million over the next two years for a makeover of Metropolitan Park.

Peyton and JEDC officials say it will give Jacksonville a "destination park" that emphasizes downtown's connection to the St. Johns River. They say downtown development will attract more private investment in the future because Metropolitan Park has untapped potential for attracting visitors and being a selling point for living downtown.

It could be a tough sell at a time when City Council members are giving close scrutiny to the proposed 2009-10 budget and city finances are tight.

City Council Vice President Jack Webb said he agrees with Peyton's concepts for the park but isn't convinced it's the right time to do it. He said Metropolitan Park "is functional. It works. It's already an existing park. It may not be everything we need it to be."

He compares the existing park to a 2005 pickup truck - it would be nice to trade it in and buy a new truck, but it could be better to "hold off a year or two and ride out the economic storm."

He said it's also a question of whether revamping the park should be ahead of other needs around the county that aren't funded. He said residents of his Mandarin council district living on dirt roads would say it's far more important to pave their streets than it is to redo Metropolitan Park.

"I'm not opposed to the mayor's vision for the park," Webb said. "I support it. It's a matter of priorities."

full article: http://www.jacksonville.com/business/2009-08-09/story/jedc_has_grand_designs_for_metropolitan_park

[thelakelander]

Can a park boost business?

The Jacksonville Economic Development Commission has drawn up plans designed to transform Metropolitan Park into an "iconic" space it calls "Jacksonville's Front Yard."

Can a "Front Yard" really have a significant impact if it is a disconnected mile away from the "House"?

The plan would replace the Kids Kampus area with green space and enhance the connection between the park and the river. The overall goal is to make the park a downtown destination that would boost businesses in the area.

Are we considering the "area" as immediate walkable surroundings or things within driving distance?  In either case, a major boost for downtown businesses is highly questionable.  Because of its isolation, it will be nothing more than a pretty green space in the middle of surface parking lots.

Highlights of the transformation:

Children's discovery area

- Children's discovery area with treehouse, climbing wall, shade structures and other play equipment. - Fire museum with trellis seating, restrooms and play fountain. - Carousel and play equipment. - Parking and consolidated facility to house park maintenance, as well as the marine fire station and dockmaster offices.

Entry Plaza

- Main entry with water features, raised pedestrian crosswalk and elevation change, providing immediate view to river. - Raised plaza with overlook and pavilions. Includes sculpture pool and wall fountain. Stairs and ramp to Riverwalk. - Plaza with seating areas, trees, tiered fountain and stream.~~~THE green - Intended to accom-modate soccer, picnics, Frisbee, kite flying and other activities. Allows views to the St. Johns River. - Tree-lined path on top of berm for views to river.~~~Performance area Minor modifications to performance bowl area, with more planned for the future.

I agree with Webb.  I'm not opposed to the vision for the park, but I question if it should be a top priority.  Especially since the money used to fund it could pay for other things that could have a more immediate impact on the downtown core.

[Ocklawaha]

Of course it's not within the park, but as a connector the streetcar, Skyway and a plan that some created at a meeting could provide some stepping stones. In the Philip Randolph Charette, one or two of the tables came up with the idea of ending Randolph into a sort of Farm market and Jacksonville Quay. I think someone might even have mentioned a similar situation in Seattle, down on the Sound. What's your take on this idea?

If we get any infill between the Park and downtown it will greatly improve our urban atmosphere. Good FIXED ROUTE transportation could supply the fuel to get that infill. The Skyway could roll down Bay, to a new Convention Center, Berkman and ?? perhaps even use the bents of the Hart Bridge Freeway over East Bay. A streetcar could approach from Newnan or Liberty farther up the hill perhaps coming into the same area via Beaver St. (Alignment only as the street is not complete) or on Duval, hell's bells we already have a "Trolley" stop next to the Arena. OH MY GOSH! WHAT A NOVEL THOUGHT! Let's put a Trolley in our "Trolley" stop! Who would have thunk it?

Add that to a REALLY funky quay, at least as big as The Landing but not a direct competetor - rather more of a waterborne compliment. Music, Banana's, Fresh Coffee and every ethnic group in the city would sure be cool. All we'd need then would be post cards, ostrich eggs and somebody selling tiny baby alligators... Shades of 1920.



One thing is for certain, if they blow another $20-30 Million on that park without ANY connection to downtown we ought to file criminal mismanagement charges against them.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Jacksonville is so sprawled, we've taken the sprawl mentality to the urban core.  Which is horrible and leads to a waste of financial resources.

My thought is to get downtown's heart (the central Northbank) right first, before spending big money on single site improvements that may be considered "downtown", yet in reality they are a good distance away from other destinations, building fabric and attractions.  Take that money and invest it in a centralized four or five block area that takes advantage of existing assets (i.e. Landing, Florida Theater, Hemming, Water Street, Waterfront between the Acosta & Main St Bridges, etc.).  Make it a reality for people to actually walk and enjoy themselves in an area not plagued by disconnection and surface parking.   That's what first class cities bring to the table and its where we lack big time.

If a streetcar investment is to be made, make sure its endpoints terminate into existing destinations from the start.  I could see a Northbank to Five Points or Park & King connection first.  Make sure your first phase is not a risky one and that it brings immediate success and high ridership.  With that said, a Philip Randolph/1st Street endpoint right off the bat may not be the smartest thing to do either.  Long term it could pay off, but in the short term, a lack of immediate high ridership and success could doom the backing for additional expansion (i.e. skyway).

[Charles Hunter]

Good points, Lake.  They should use some of the Metro Park money for the apparently not funded Downtown Wayfinding signs.  Much better improvement, in the urban core.

[zoo]

Because of its isolation, it will be nothing more than a pretty green space in the middle of surface parking lots.

Isn't that what it already is? What should be done is open access to the River, but that part of the plan would not cost $29M.

City Council Vice President Jack Webb said he agrees with Peyton's concepts for the park but isn't convinced it's the right time to do it. He said Metropolitan Park "is functional. It works. It's already an existing park. It may not be everything we need it to be."

He compares the existing park to a 2005 pickup truck - it would be nice to trade it in and buy a new truck, but it could be better to "hold off a year or two and ride out the economic storm."

In this regard, I agree with Jack Webb, but he is crazy if he thinks he highest priority possible use for CIP funding is to pave dirt roads in Mandarin! Just another suburbanite pushing for more sprawl.

Can a "Front Yard" really have a significant impact if it is a disconnected mile away from the "House"?

Of course not! This is Ron Barton and his suburbanite staff thinking they understand urban planning, and the suburbanite JEDC commission rubber-stamping their economic development suggestions. Money would be better spent on an active, or several active, uses in the already-bad-idea Main Street pocket park. I'd like to see the CIP money spent on the decades-neglected Hogan's Creek and its parks (the 1976, rusted Chevelle with the floor falling out and CO pouring in through a hole in the trunk, in Mr. Webb's analogy).

Jacksonville is so sprawled, we've taken the sprawl mentality to the urban core.

This is because the people who are employed by the city to work on these projects, and the influencers and decision-makers on CIP allocations (Jacksonville's resource grab) are suburbanites. In the years I've been working on trying to urbanize Jax, I haven't met a single one of them who lives Downtown, or in the adjacent sections of "downtown neighborhoods."

[tufsu1]

Of course not! This is Ron Barton and his suburbanite staff thinking they understand urban planning, and the suburbanite JEDC commission rubber-stamping their economic development suggestions.

What makes you think Ron Barton doesn't understand urban planning....have you seen what he and others did in downtown St. Petersburg?

[heights unknown]

Here we go again; Jax leaders not thinking, not focusing, not accessing, not analyzing, not planning, and I could go on, and on, and on, and on, and................................

Let's see if they can pull a rabbit out of the missing hat.

Heights Unknown

[Ocklawaha]

In this regard, I agree with Jack Webb, but he is crazy if he thinks he highest priority possible use for CIP funding is to pave dirt roads in Mandarin! Just another suburbanite pushing for more sprawl.

Can a "Front Yard" really have a significant impact if it is a disconnected mile away from the "House"?

Of course not! This is Ron Barton and his suburbanite staff thinking they understand urban planning, and the suburbanite JEDC commission rubber-stamping their economic development suggestions. Money would be better spent on an active, or several active, uses in the already-bad-idea Main Street pocket park. I'd like to see the CIP money spent on the decades-neglected Hogan's Creek and its parks (the 1976, rusted Chevelle with the floor falling out and CO pouring in through a hole in the trunk, in Mr. Webb's analogy).

The only problem with keeping the dirt roads is that they cost us a fortune to keep graded. Everyone has some idea of how expensive it is to operate those huge machines that work on road projects. Imagine that we have to maintain a fleet of these graders for the never ending task of smoothing over DIRT. Chip and Seal pavement, which is the old style asphalt pebble type roadway, is fairly cheap and would probably last us 5 years or so, it would last longer on lightly used streets.


OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

Jacksonville is so sprawled, we've taken the sprawl mentality to the urban core.  Which is horrible and leads to a waste of financial resources.

If a streetcar investment is to be made, make sure its endpoints terminate into existing destinations from the start.  I could see a Northbank to Five Points or Park & King connection first.  Make sure your first phase is not a risky one and that it brings immediate success and high ridership.  With that said, a Philip Randolph/1st Street endpoint right off the bat may not be the smartest thing to do either.  Long term it could pay off, but in the short term, a lack of immediate high ridership and success could doom the backing for additional expansion (i.e. skyway).

You know we both agree to within 2' feet of eachother on the Streetcar Route Lake. I just reread my post and I really blew it by not mentioning the concept was WITH the Randolph Charette improvements: Hotel at Randolph and Expressway, greatly expanded and LOCAL restaurants and shops and the grand anchor of a quay/market/fish and farm spot on the South end at Bay Street. I can almost taste the flavor of Randolph Street and honestly think if we are not going to do right by the central core, we sure as hell could make A.P.Randolph a model street.

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

29 Million Dollars to enhance is ludicrous! Maybe if the COJ were flush with money but the way Johnny flushes money ....won't be anytime soom! Rail connections make a great deal of sense so forget it! If it makes sense it won't happen and I base this thought on FDOT planning to this point in time! Lack of rail.....Skyway to nowhere....lack of downtown transportation.....heck I could go on and on!

[zoo]

honestly think if we are not going to do right by the central core, we sure as hell could make A.P.Randolph a model street

Ock, I could not agree more with this idea, and look forward to fish market/quay and vibrancy in the stadium district and on A.P.R. But can we let the City focus on finishing projects already begun like the Laura Street improvements and Main St 2-waying (both hopefully providing connectivity with the closest thing Downtown has to a residential population - Springfield) ?!?!!?

Don't worry, just because of some outdated Downtown boundaries, and the fact part of A.P.R. falls within them, I'm sure JEDC will try to force that project first, despite the organic change and momentum already occurring in its uptown neighborhood.