JTA Skyway Riverside Extension

[stjr]

Ock, let's discuss one leg of your dream $ky-high-way routing.  East Bay Street.  So, you want to run the $ky-high-way across the face of the historic buildings making up this district?  How compatible is that?  And, didn't someone build some second/third floor lofts along here?  Are these residents supposed to look out their windows at the $ky-high-way?  How much of that entertainment district will survive the construction period of an extension of the $ky-high-way?  Based on prior history, none.

And, you wonder why there is NIMBY resistance?

Now, if you are one of these sideline residents or businesses or just care about street level ambiance that hearkens to our historic past, which would you prefer?  Streetcars or $ky-high-way?

[Ocklawaha]

Ock, let's discuss one leg of your dream $ky-high-way routing.  East Bay Street.  So, you want to run the $ky-high-way across the face of the historic buildings making up this district?  How compatible is that?  And, didn't someone build some second/third floor lofts along here?  Are these residents supposed to look out their windows at the $ky-high-way?  How much of that entertainment district will survive the construction period of an extension of the $ky-high-way?  Based on prior history, none.

And, you wonder why there is NIMBY resistance?

Now, if you are one of these sideline residents or businesses or just care about street level ambiance that hearkens to our historic past, which would you prefer?  Streetcars or $ky-high-way?

Properly routed, they each serve a different market within the same city. Streetcars won't cross the river anytime soon, nor will they fly. Scratch a Hogan or Laura alignment, which leave the Skyway in some prime real estate. Skyways and Streetcars are relatively silent, in that regard buses and automobiles are the real enemy, and why would I complain about a Skyway track and not an elevated sidewalk (Baptist Hospital or FBC?) or looking out my window and seeing roof tops? or seeing 100' feet of pavement, radiating the July heat? your attacking the wrong mode.

OCKLAWAHA

[Coolyfett]

Jax doesnt care about history. Its a proven fact. The Skyway is near many Historic locations. What is more Historic than Hemming Plaza.

[mtraininjax]

You won't see streetcars of $ky way anytime soon with this budget in place.

[Coolyfett]

lol

[Ocklawaha]

Unless the Skyway fall's on top of City Hall, my crystal ball say's:

Skyway Extension into San Marco
and Riverside is a strong maybe

Streetcar Phase One

BUILT within 5 years...   

How do I know? Maybe it's just a hunch, or maybe? Just remember that 2 people can keep a secret as long as one of them is dead!


OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Too many issue's with the $kyway to extend Ock.............would take Federal money (our tax money one more time)to even begin to extend and don't see that happening with a freeze on Federal money according to Oboma! The "NIMBY" cult would have something to say about penetrating historic anywhere........unless it were underground......then maybe, but lets see just how good your crystal ball is working!

[tufsu1]

I will agree that we get some streetcar built within five years....but highly doubt we'll see a skyway extension anytime soon.

Need proof....the $9.3 million stimulus grant that JTA just got originally had $100,000 listed for enhancements at the Skyway Central Station....when a City Council member objected, JTA changed the application to put the $100,000 to something else!

[Doctor_K]

Unless the Skyway fall's on top of City Hall, my crystal ball say's:

How do I know? Maybe it's just a hunch, or maybe? Just remember that 2 people can keep a secret as long as one of them is dead!

OCKLAWAHA

Alright, I'll bite.  Who'd you knock off?

[strider]

Without reading this entire thread, it does seem like the skyway is one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations.  As it is, it is not very effective. There are times as it is that is it used closer to capacity...by out of towners during the right conventions. The issue seems to be deciding how best to get daily communers using it more and that involves extending it.

So, the final question seems to be do you admitt defeat and tear it down or extend it?  Which is less expensive in the long run? What is the cost of whatever public transit replaces it combined with the cost to demo and that compared to the cost of extending it to make it work, which is better for the city and the tax payers?  Letting it continue as is seems somewhat self defeating.

[stjr]

....the $9.3 million stimulus grant that JTA just got originally had $100,000 listed for enhancements at the Skyway Central Station....when a City Council member objected, JTA changed the application to put the $100,000 to something else!

Tufsu, what's more useful?  A $ky-high-way station no one uses, or bus shelters so badly needed that we need to turn the town upside down to get it done.  If true, the switch in the 100K was smart and that isn't something I can say very often about JTA's actions.  Of course, someone else had to tell them to do it.  Maybe they were the smart one.

[stjr]

Which is less expensive in the long run? What is the cost of whatever public transit replaces it combined with the cost to demo and that compared to the cost of extending it to make it work, which is better for the city and the tax payers?  Letting it continue as is seems somewhat self defeating.

Strider, had we junked the $ky-high-way at any of several "Do-we-expand-or-junk-it?" points in the past, we could have saved, or far better redirected toward other mass transit options, hundreds of millions in capital and operating costs dollars.  On a per rider basis, no form of mass transit loses more money than the $ky-high-way despite 30 years of promises to the contrary.  Expanding it will only serve to expand this gross waste of money, nothing more.

It's tough admitting a mistake, it's even tougher admitting you couldn't admit a mistake.  That's the story of the $ky-high-way's survival.

[Ocklawaha]

Too many issue's with the $kyway to extend Ock.............would take Federal money (our tax money one more time)to even begin to extend and don't see that happening with a freeze on Federal money according to Oboma! The "NIMBY" cult would have something to say about penetrating historic anywhere........unless it were underground......then maybe, but lets see just how good your crystal ball is working!

The 2 to 3 miles needed to get the Skyway into a destination can be built at a nearly identical cost to Light Rail, and the segments are short enough to be 100% locally funded. Bottom line, NO FEDERAL MONEY NEEDED, though if we apply for it, we are nearly guaranteed approval of our grant. Federal Mass Transit money is not frozen, and none of the extensions would be in a designated "historic district".


OCKLAWAHA

[Coolyfett]

They really need to do this part of the skyway extension, it would boost ridership immensely.

I totally agree. Put it where people live.

[Coolyfett]

Without reading this entire thread, it does seem like the skyway is one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't situations.  As it is, it is not very effective. There are times as it is that is it used closer to capacity...by out of towners during the right conventions. The issue seems to be deciding how best to get daily communers using it more and that involves extending it.

So, the final question seems to be do you admitt defeat and tear it down or extend it?  Which is less expensive in the long run? What is the cost of whatever public transit replaces it combined with the cost to demo and that compared to the cost of extending it to make it work, which is better for the city and the tax payers?  Letting it continue as is seems somewhat self defeating.

They didnt finish it...It has 8 stations...Only 2 actually go somewhere nice. 2 out of 8. So six of them need developments near them. One councilmen GOB....will fade away in time and a younger wiser councilmen will eventually fill the void. I used the Skyway often, especially when going to MocaJax or the Library. I dont want it all the way to Post & Stockton....but Post & Margeret were perfert for where I used to live.

Its quite comical to read someone wanting more bus shelters and less Skyway stations when they in fact never even use JTA?? 3 buses went through Riverside EVERYDAY!! the W4, W7 & W12 none ruined the HISTORY of gentrified Riverside....but now you think a Skyway train will? And those buses were/are loud.