Florida's Building Proposals On Rise

[tufsu1]

So, if the route goes from the airport to I-4, via the Bee line, a stop at I-Drive would not be included?

I would assume in that case there would be....originally, two alignments were proposed...Disney wanted the one that followed the Greeneway because it didn't have an I-Drive stop....but the  preferred route was never entirely decided.

From what I hear, FDOT will be taking over the HSR studies...and will likely update the PD&E as a first task

[Ocklawaha]

Disney has said that they will put all of their guests who currently use bus transportation from OIA onto HSR if they choose the route that avoids I-Drive and the other theme parks

Smells to high heavens doesn't it? Maybe that's why it attracts the rat.

OCKLAWAHA

[brainstormer]

I couldn't agree with you guys more.  I won't restate the obvious, but also want to point out that this state spends billions of dollars every year building new infrastructure (roads, sewer lines, electric lines, etc.).  We spend all this money on new growth and neglect the older areas where upgrades are needed to water lines and repaving of streets built years ago.  In my mind these developers with plans for thousands and thousands of homes need to be stopped.  They are acting out of pure greed, don't give a damn about the environment and could care less about helping communities grow via smart growth.  I'm going to blame them for global warming while I'm at it!   I wonder how much their lobbyists get paid....I bet it's a hefty sum.   

[tufsu1]

not quite true...some of the most expensive infrastructure projects over the last few years have been rebuilding urban interstates...like I-4 and 275 in Tampa...and the 95/10 interchange here.

And while I agree with you about developers, the dirty little secret that most Floridians don't want to hear is that many large-scale developments (like Julington Creek and Oakleaf) more than pay for themselves over 20-30 years...in essence, the property and ad valorem tax collections from people in those communities more than offset the costs for schools, roads, sewers, etc. needed for the development

[fatcat]

I am not sure if the property tax pays for the new construction. Besides, 20-30 yr is a very long time even though Real estate is a business if patience. But there will be no payback for those trees

[tufsu1]

its not just property txes....its business taxes, additional sales tax revenues, etc.

But I agree with you....the plain and simple cost-revenue analysis should not be the only factor in the decision.

[brainstormer]

So tufsu, I'm not saying you are wrong, but it is really hard to imagine that these subdivisions actually are profitable for the city.  I mean 20-30 years is a long time to wait and by then the way we develop in Jacksonville, that same area that was "new" is now a "in the past" development and it starts to lose it's appeal.  And what about these huge subdivisions that are going bankrupt?  Did you read today's article in the TU?  You can't tell me the "let's build as fast as we can on the outskirts of town" is worth it!  Now we have all this infrastructure and I bet you nothing more gets built for at least 8-10 years.  Have you read the article about Flint, MI downsizing.  They are actually making their town smaller to save money.  I'm not anti-growth, I just think that Jacksonville in particular doesn't have a plan and we are bleeding money to greedy developers.  If I was in charge I would immediately halt all outer growth in Duval and force developers to focus on infill projects where infrastructure is already built.  We would save money and still grow our tax base. 

[tufsu1]

the fact is that the state growth management department (DCA) hired an economic expert a few year back to develop a fiscal impact model....in the majority of cases, the model showed that large-scale developments more than paid for themselves by the time they were built out....believe me, that wasn't the answer DCA was looking for...so they (and others) spent a year trying to debunk the model....but couldn't.

The dirty little secret is that more expensive housing developments offer governments the most bang for the buck...which of course goes against the notion of encouraging developers to add more workforce/affordable housing.

[brainstormer]

Well that makes sense because the higher real estate sale value would generate higher tax revenue and attract people who would in the end contribute more to the local economy.  The problem with this is that 4 years ago this was possible because every middle income family was buying their dream house for $350,000 in a beautiful new suburban community, even though they couldn't afford it.  Now however, the dream is smashed.  Had Jacksonville held back and we had not gotten caught up in the housing craze, we would be far better off.  What are we going to do with all of these half finished subdivisions? 

[tufsu1]

I might agree...but keep in mind that Jacksonville is better off than any other major metro in Florida in terms of home values....primarily because we didn't build that rapidly.

If you want to see half-finished places, take a trip to Ft. Myers...and check out Lehigh Acres and Cape Coral!

[heights unknown]

We've got to be careful; can't build and then hope they'll come, and, we don't want to start doing the same thing we were doing a year or more ago that lead to this real estate mess that we're already in. what in the world are these people thinking or trying to do?  (you got me!). 

I say wait until the market gets better, people start buying again, ensure that property sales are done right, correctly, and within the guidelines of the new rules, and, for God's sakes don't sell property to people that can't afford it or don't make enough money to make the payments.

Heights Unknown

[fatcat]

the urban (or suburban ) sprawl not only leave behind half finished subdivisions when market tank, but also drains people from urban core and leave existing buildings to rot. 

[Jason]

Does anyone have any guesses as to what percentage of the foreclosed homes are outside the urbanized area of the city?  My guess is that the burbs have a much larger stock of empty and foreclosed homes than the established center city neighborhoods do.

[tufsu1]

interesting update on this...the DCA secretary withdrew his support of the growth mgmt. bills in the Senate and House today....kind of odd because he had been supporting the concepts for months.