BRT Coming to Blanding Boulevard

[thelakelander]

I don't have to wait and see.  This country is choke full of good and bad examples of bus rapid transit.

1. If you're going to do it, this is more affordable than purchasing new ROW and building dedicated busways.  The more money we can save by restricting BRT to existing corridors, the more BJP rapid transit money can be funneled to rail transit.

2. Despite the affordability, its not going to excite the general public the way an initial rail line would do.  Nevertheless, this is fine as long as local transit planners understand that BRT should complement and feed riders into rail corridors, not the other way around.

3. Traffic should flow a little better in this short stretch because the bus won't be clogging the through traffic lanes when it stops.  However, by the same token, this improvement will not stimulate transit oriented development, increase transit ridership, improve the public image of JTA or begin to alter Jax's growth patterns.  All of these things are more important to the community than shaving a few seconds off bus travel times.

4. The heavily congested area is Blanding SOUTH of I-295.  If it fails, it will probably end up being converted into an additional lane of traffic.  I'm kind of shocked that the lane isn't separated from the others with a heavy white continuous line.  To the casual observer, it looks like a regular traffic lane.

[David]

Well I meant wait and see about how it's going to work here. I personally have no opinion yet because I don't know enough about the subject. You did mention "if it fails" though so i'm assuming there's no general concensus if this thing's going to be a success or not.

And do the local tranit planners understand that it should feed into rail corridors, or is rail even on the horizon as far as they're concerned?

[thelakelander]

And do the local transit planners understand that it should feed into rail corridors, or is rail even on the horizon as far as they're concerned?

That's the question that remains to be answered, imo.  Mentally, I believe they do, but it does not seem that a true commitment has been made to move forward with any form of an initial rail implementation plan.  If so, a change in priorities, having a rail starter moving forward ahead of BRT implementation/continued corridor studies, would have occurred.  While financial concerns are certainly valid, this community is sitting on $100 million (or whatever is left of it) for rapid transit ROW.  If we can commit to a plan, there's no reason the council can't be sold on agreeing to have that money used for implementation, in addition to ROW purchase (if necessary).

[Ocklawaha]

Right Turns without Rear End accidents?

This is the dummest idea that I have ever heard or. We have fought the construction on this section of road for over two years hopeing that when finished the rush hour traffic would move smoother and faster. After two years of construction and much much money spent we are still right where we started. We still have two lane traffic. Only three ways to get into Jacksonville from Orange Park Roosevelt blvd,295 and blanding. I am not alone in my feelings for this stupid project. Has the genius that came up with this project ever tried to get in or out of jacksonville during rush hour or any hour? Someone has stepped in it on this idea and believe me I am not alone in my feelings. Be prepared to hear from sane people on this stupid idea.From the looks of the BUS LANE cars will still have to slow to a crawl to get around the bus because the BUS LANE is too narrow. STUPIDITY AT ITS FINEST.

Robbie, Don sweate de smal stuf. Mark Twain said, "Truly great writers can't spell."

As to your remarks on BRT. I don't think we can judge this project when only a tiny fraction of it is completed. If we shoot it down before giving it a complete roll-out, IT WILL suffer the same fate as the Skyway, and become just another of Jacksonville's failed, almost, could have, might be, oh darn, projects.

The idea here is not to take away lanes from the traffic, but to make the bus lane flow like a fluid river of transit. When the bus lanes reach Kingsley on one end and Downtown on the other, then we can judge it. When the buses roll past with headways closer then every 15 minutes, and great parking facilities and attractive stations beckon, those remaining lanes should be able to cope for a prolonged time. BRT will not solve any traffic problems, but it can ease the pain if enough people find it useful.

I have a few reservations about this route, (as usual), but I wouldn't be doing my job as the resident transit monster if I didn't comment:

1. My "opinion" is that most of the Bellair-Meadowbrook-Well's Road area seems to be employed at NAS Jax. Am I correct? What are we doing to address this? With such dense delivery points within the base, it should be an attractive alternative to sitting in that mess in the family sedan.

2. Transit lanes without an open invitation. JTA is a State Agency. JTA is only one of two(?) major Transit Authorities that is also a public road builder. As Blanding is a public road with a dedicated "TRANSIT" lane, should all motor coaches, jitney's or van pools be allowed to use this?

3. The bottom right illustration of turning right from the center lane into the grocery store looks like an invitation to rear end disaster.


Right Turns fixed but left turns still need a turn lane + a warning device for buses fast approaching from the left rear of your vehicle.

Damned if you do - Damned if you don't!

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

As to your remarks on BRT. I don't think we can judge this project when only a tiny fraction of it is completed. If we shoot it down before giving it a complete roll-out, IT WILL suffer the same fate as the Skyway, and become just another of Jacksonville's failed, almost, could have, might be, oh darn, projects.
OCKLAWAHA[/color][/u][/i][/b]

This brings out an important element in transit corridor rollout.  Whatever you do, no matter what the mode, the initial segment needs to be something that is virtually guaranteed to work.  The success of your initial line, no matter what the length, will do more to change local perception of mass transit than any dog and pony show.  A poor rollout leads to the same fate the skyway suffered.  Nothing is new under the sun.  Even sprawbugs like Houston, Charlotte and Salt Lake City have used good, smartly planned initial segments as leverage to the implementation of regional wide mass transit systems.  Its time for Jax, to stop attempting to recreate the wheel and follow suit.

[Egodriver71]

I think it would be nice if Jacksonville would just implement some HOV lanes instead of just adding regular lanes.

I live near this new BRT, but I no longer use it in my commute.  I now do the commute I see nothing on the table for, Westside to the Beaches.  I'm not sure how well this short stretch will work as a BRT.  The biggest thing I see it solving it the parking of big trucks along Blanding.  It has gotten to were it seemed like a trucking depot along there more than a regular road.

I was a part of the initial group that identified the north/southeast corridor back in 2000/2001.  I got very frustrated with the rail won't work in Jax attitude JTA had back then.  They seemed to think BRT was the end all be all and that left a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth about the BRTs.

Good luck and I hope something works out.  Jax needs to get on the mass transit wagon and do something rather than keep doing studies hoping they get it right out of the box.

Thomas Mann

[thelakelander]

Welcome to the site.  I think we've done a pretty good job of educating the local "BRT is superior crowd" on rail.  Hopefully, in the upcoming months, the discussion will turn into implementing something, as opposed to continuing to study without commitment.

[ralpho37]

So is this how they plan to keep these lanes separate from other traffic?  With a few orange cones?  If so, this does seem like a recipe for trouble to any commuter who frequents this drive.  I'll say I'm not very familiar with this area of town, but making these changes seems like it would only confuse drivers and not alleviate traffic.

[thelakelander]

We took the images before they removed the orange cones.  So there is nothing that separates these lanes from regular traffic other than paint saying "Bus Only Lane."

[Jason]

So what is the overall route that will use these lanes?  Is it for an actual express line from OP to Downtown?

[fsujax]

This appears to be a simple restriping effort after a repaving job. It may be just a pilot to see how it goes. I wouldn't get all worked over it at this point. JTA could have built solely deidcated guideways for this. So it could be worse.

[ralpho37]

Okay, its good to hear that they didn't keep the cones haha...  Even though I am a huge proponent of commuter rail, I'd say this is definitely a step in the right direction.  It shows that JTA is dedicated to introducing some much-needed mass transit to Jacksonville.

[thelakelander]

So what is the overall route that will use these lanes?  Is it for an actual express line from OP to Downtown?

The WS 2.  Its a regular bus line between Orange Park Mall and Downtown.

http://www.jtafla.com/pdf/RouteMap_Jan09pdf.pdf

[thelakelander]

This appears to be a simple restriping effort after a repaving job. It may be just a pilot to see how it goes. I wouldn't get all worked over it at this point. JTA could have built solely deidcated guideways for this. So it could be worse.

Yes, that's all it is.  However, as a pilot we'll get to see up close and personal why so many of our peers are scratching and pawing to implement rail solutions first.

[Doctor_K]

The WS 2.  Its a regular bus line between Orange Park Mall and Downtown.

Would this route alone not already doom it to spectacular failure?  The two end-points are a (perceived) empty downtown core and a suburban mall?  I need to look at the route on the JTA site to see how many stops lie along the route, but it seems like this is practically connecting nothing-to-nothing, as the Skyway does downtown.