Police State Downtown.

[NotNow]

There are limited searchs on some phones which have a tie in with suspected terrorist groups or individuals who are suspected terrorist.  Hardly massive in that usually less that 1000 numbers are targeted.  Think about how much data is transmitted daily throughout this country!  It is impossible to use even automated systems to monitor all of it.  The rules for this program are also easily available via the same google inquiry.  There is no evidence that reporters are being spied on as a rule.  You are describing a limited program and basing the argument on the rantings of Russell Tice, who left the NSA after his clearances were removed due to mental questions.  Of course MSNBC and some others jumped on his stories and thus what we see here.  As for fusion centers,  I am quite familiar with them and their purpose is the laudable one of sharing information between federal, state, and local authorities.  Massive amounts of voice, financial, and private data are not being forwarded by them. 

I understand your concern, but please do some more research and investigate some of the sources used for the claims that you are making.

[NotNow]

You are comparing America to Romainia of the 80's?  Really?  You think that the current efforts to identify terrorist and their organization in this country really is the same as Ceauşescu's secret police actions in Romainia? 

Eight years ago there was a demand in this country for an effort to root out and destroy terrorism both domestically and abroad.  I must admit that I am disappointed but not surprised by the short memory of many of my fellow Americans.  Some would recoil from this clash of cultural values.  I will not.  Some men and women are taking seriously the job of searching out those that would cut the throats of your children.  We provided some reasonable tools to do that work.  Politics and a weak minded media (and Stephen) are now portraying these Americans as  evil fascists who seek to become "masters" of all.  Do you remember just before the first invasion of Iraq how unsure of the future most people were?  Were you unsure and somewhat scared?  Some Americans placed EVERYTHING including their lives on the line.  Do you remember how you felt on 9/11?  How scary it was that these animals could do this in our country?  How it felt to see people leaping to their deaths?  Some Americans were rushing to New York to search and help the police and firemen who put EVERYTHING on the line.  Other Americans were leaving jobs and families to go to South Asia and put EVERYTHING at risk.  These are the same Americans who are now being accused of wanting a "police state" in America.  Please take these dire and exagerrated accounts of "sources" and "fascist"  "secret police" with a grain of salt.  I know who I believe in.

[BridgeTroll]

Here is the actual report.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200809/ldselect/ldconst/18/1802.htm

They make some very good arguments in favor of CCTV...

Chapter 9 has all the recommendations of the committee.

[BridgeTroll]

   Trust me Stephen nobody wants to see the Troll stumbling around the house in his robe...   I am surely not advocating cameras inside my or your house... but I have not made up my mind on the public CCTV.

I do not think chapter 9 comes to the conclusion you say it does however...

[BridgeTroll]

And the way I read that is... this stuff is here to stay so we better work on safeguards to protect peoples privacy.  They recognize that this information is abusable.  No one is denying that it is.  Simply put safeguards in place to deter and prevent abuse.

[BridgeTroll]

Consent plays a part in the requirement for "fair processing" because it involves the organisation in conveying information to individuals about its processing activities. However, consent is not essential in determining whether personal data can be collected.

And...

In practical terms, we recognise that, for many state activities and in the private sector, it is difficult to function without giving one's personal information, and that the scope for the individual to express genuine consent is narrow.

[Lunican]

Maybe parking enforcement can get their hands on this system and issue tickets remotely.

[BridgeTroll]

  Your killing me... Did you miss this previous post??

Trust me Stephen nobody wants to see the Troll stumbling around the house in his robe...   I am surely not advocating cameras inside my or your house... but I have not made up my mind on the public CCTV.

BTW... Thanks for the laugh...

One never thinks of homeless people in a sexual context.  (Or at least I never did.  And even now very rarely despite the following anecdote.)

O-M-G...

[NotNow]

Stephen, please pay attention to the conversation.  My reply in post #75 was to the charges made in an earlier post which made false accusations of phone taps and spying.  Then you compared our country to 1980's Romainia.  I am pointing out that most of those people that you accuse of criminal activity without any proof are the same people who have put their lives on the line for this country and what it stands for.  You post a youtube of Olbermann as a reliable source?  What a boob!  Then you accuse me of exaggerating and seeing terrorist hiding amongst the homeless?  Are you joking?  Did you just get confused about what we were discussing?  Or are you intentionally misrepresenting what I said?  This is essentially the same argument that we had about your baseless and cowardly accusations of crimes by members of our military.  Without evidence, or any personal experience, those accusations demand an apology from you.  And when you make the same kind of accusations against law enforcement and homeland security professionals who are actually DOING SOMETHING to protect this country and your a**, you are simply demonstrating either your ignorance or a lack of propriety.

[NotNow]

But I mean that in the nicest way    And it is always great to see someone with the 'nads to use their real name...Stephen um?

[Ocklawaha]

As a Vietnam Vet - Disabled (Poison sucks!) and HIPPIE, (roughly in that order), it warms my heart to think good old Uncle Sam is watching my every move. Those of you that think it's okay, just keep surrendering your freedom bit by bit... It's painless that way.

"The demands on the vanquished citizens should be made in small installments so as not to alarm them to our greater cause..." A. Hitler

Anyway, also as a veteran of more then a few "PEACEFUL PROTESTS" (yeah right), It comforts me nightly to KNOW that somewhere in Washington D.C., is a big file drawer, with a brown envelope in it. Inside that envelope is a photo with my name on it, and some basic detail that basically spells "Trouble-Maker". Well folks I might be old, but if they want my opinion... F--K ALL OF THEM!

Look out the windows
there's cops in the trees
but nobody knows it
but my business and me
I don't care if it's the Narc's or the Fed's
cuz I'm tellin you man, this town is dead!

OCKLAWAHA
If you want me to tell you how I REALLY feel just ask! Hee Hee

[urbanlibertarian]

The government should not be watching or searching individuals (even in public spaces) unless there is probable cause for the individual to be suspected of commiting a crime.  The primary purpose for having any government at all is to protect individual liberty.  Privacy should not be sacrificed for security.

[Charles Hunter]

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

[NotNow]

Actually Stephen, if you would check the posts, you would see that KenFSU made charges against the USG in post #69.  In post #74 you compared the USG with 1980's Romainia's government and their secret police.  Your statements were in a thread about installing CCTV downtown.  I was simply responding to that.  So, once again, you either did not read or pay attention to the thread, or you are misrepresenting what was said on this thread. 

As to your Italian "journalist", I found this quote from her wiki bio interesting:


"Harald Doornbos, a Dutch war reporter traveling with American forces, wrote that while on a flight to Baghdad he told Sgrena to be careful of kidnappers, to which she responded “That won't happen. We are siding with the oppressed Iraqi people. No Iraqi would kidnap us”. Sgrena and her companions went on to explain that they were in no danger from Iraqi insurgents saying that Doornbos did not "understand the situation. We are anti-imperialists, anti-capitalists, communists, the Iraqis only kidnap American sympathizers, the enemies of the Americans have nothing to fear."[2]

Conversely, anti-globalization activist Naomi Klein reported that Sgrena was "fully aware" of but willing to take "tremendous risks" in order to document the war[3]. Sgrena defended her decision to risk kidnapping as a necessary part of working as an unembedded reporter in a warzone. She points to her reporting on such critical incidents as the Second Battle of Fallujah, where, she argues, only unembedded reporters were able to report the level of destruction in the city and the ferocity of urban warfare, which according to her included the use of napalm[4].

She was later shown in a video pleading that the demands of her kidnappers, the withdrawal of Italian troops from Iraq, be fulfilled. Her release was subsequently negotiated and she was freed on March 4, 2005."



Interesting woman.  I am sure that her reporting is quite honest and is not biased against the USA.  Once again, good work on your part vetting your information.  All I am asking for Stephen is for you to be honest.  Over and over again I see inflammatory statements and threads which prove to be intentionally or thoughtlessly exagerrated or even outright false statements.  Surely you see that this greatly reduces your credibility.  I will point out one more time that your accusations against our fighting men and women in Iraq deserve an apology from you.  I know that you do not understand the sacrifices that are made for you and your families, but when your information is wrong, you should man up. 

[McBeefkins]

However, this thread isnt about your brand of international politics, I think instead that its about the basic threat to our home grown privacy.

the problem is not about any home grown issues. The problem is that you think to much!  After reading all your BS filled posts on this soar subject, that's not even news worthy.  Its starting to become more apparent to the readers on this blog that you like to cry about the most worthless SH?T.  "Oh, y privacy has been violated", who cares if you smoke pot and like to play grab ass with bumbs!  Trust me,  I dont like the police, but even criminals love the idea of being video taped.  It gives em a chance to become rich.  Remember Rodney King? Ha, maybe this is a good way to watch our local government as well...