Police State Downtown.

[gatorback]

DetroitJax.  I have a sense of humor.  That is rich.  But, let me ask you,  why stop Miami way.  Why not say all the way to South America?  Perhaps Rio during Festival?  We can close the gap in the budget after all vis-a-vis human traffic.

[downtownjag]

Gatorback, DetroitinJax, maybe you know already, maybe not, but there was a plan being tossed around downtown called "Hometown Destinations" or something to that effect that was sponsored by some of the city's larger landowners; basically they were going to buy all the bums one way tickets out of town.  Pretty funny idea but I would hate to see the retaliation from other cities!

[jbm32206]

stephendare: No one wants to be outside after a few drinks at a club or a lovers spat at a restaurant with the feeling that they are being watched. Its really as simple as that.
London, the city most famous for this egregious bullshit has found that the cameras are increasingly being ripped right off of the buildings and destroyed by the angry londoners.

Its all manner of things that people do that they don't want captured on video.

JaxByDefault: It's just too expensive for something that brings almost nothing to downtown.

By even putting up the cameras, they're basically giving in to the misperception that downtown is not safe

First of all, the expectation of privacy is null and void when one is outside, in public view. So there's no violation of one's rights. If someone is concerned about being seen on film, outside having a spat with another, and/or after a few drinks...then don't argue there, taking it somewhere private. As for the drinking, unless you're breaking the law, in all reality, who cares if you've been observed after having a few?

I disagree, that such cameras give the impression that an area isn't safe, in fact, I would say it says the opposite...that it's being watched. Surveillance cameras are everywhere, stores, offices, you name it, they're there. They've been institutional in aiding investigators to solve crimes, when there were no other witnesses to or would come forth. Does anyone recall the incident after the college football game, where several guys beat to death a student from the rival school? How was that solved...yup, the surveillance camera at CSX.

Now I don't agree with the city shelling out money for them, not when there's more pressing issues in need. I would be in favor of it, when downtown becomes more alive with business and such.

[Ocklawaha]

CUT AND PASTE over the lens of your favorite downtown camera.

OCKLAWAHA

[jbm32206]

and your point is....

[Ocklawaha]

and your point is....

JOAN! OMG! My friend,  I thought YOU of all people would catch the old hippie coming out____ .

PEACEFUL PROTEST - "The Alices Restaurant Approach".

Can you imagine 5 officers watching all those monitors then suddenly one by one they go to the test pattern? Funny as hell, point made, we won't stand for it.

OCKLAWAHA

[jbm32206]

I caught that...I was just wondering if you were making another statement...didn't want to presume. Hell, do they even use those test patterns anymore....that's showing our age Bob

[gatorback]

I'm old but not that old.  Where these test images things really used in protests? 

[jbm32206]

no, they were actually shown on tv when the station lost reception

[Ocklawaha]

Yeah, just thought it was a bit freaky... Anyone over maybe 40, kicked back on the screens, coffee and donuts in hand and suddenly TEST PATTERN. Coffee drools back out of the mouth as he trys to adjust his set... donut hits the ledge and bounces to the floor...

"Hey Lou? Do you eh, see what I see?"
"What the hell are you trying to watch Vinnie?"
"No REALLY Lou, I'm just sitting here and dis thing just comes up on the moniter..."
"Vinnie, you been hitting the sauce on the clock again?"
"No Lou, come look, here it comes again"   

This is just too good to miss. Oh and for the younger cops on watch we have this:


Don't forget to CUT and PASTE this in front of the video camera of your choice!

OCKLAWAHA

[JeffreyS]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7862893.stm
Here is a story of cameras being misused.

Fines fraud hits Italian drivers
By Duncan Kennedy
BBC News, Rome

Ponta Tresa at the border between Switzerland and Italy
Drivers who made mistakes were caught on camera and fined

Thousands of drivers in Italy are expected to seek compensation after it was revealed that a system to catch them jumping red lights was rigged.

More than 100 people, including police officers, are being investigated as part of the fraud.

The T-Redspeed system - a revolutionary camera technology - has been in use for two years in 300 areas across Italy.

Cameras linked to traffic lights capture 3-d images of vehicles if they jump the lights or are speeding.

It can also detect offences like illegal u-turns.

Fraudulent fines

It is believed more than a million drivers have been trapped by the system.

But it is now claimed the lights were rigged to change from yellow to red in three seconds instead of the regulation five or six seconds.

The fraud was uncovered by a senior police officer who noticed an unusually high number of fines being issued.

Instead of an average 15 fines a day in some places, the figure jumped to more than 1,000.

The fraud may have netted as much as $170m (£116.4m) for those involved.

The scheme's inventor is now under house arrest, though his lawyers say he is innocent.

More than 100 other people including 63 police commanders are also being investigated as part of the scam.

[KenFSU]

I see nothing wrong with the cameras unless you plan on doing something illegal you shouldnt be worried.

With all due respect, I think there should be a special key on the keyboard that automatically outputs this catchphrase each time the issues of civil liberties and privacy are raised. People, such as myself, don’t deplore surveillance systems like this because they are street hooligans hell bent on “doing something wrong.”

Privacy is a person’s most sacred right. It’s not the ability to commit crime without consequence, but rather the freedom to be a human being. I work hard during the day, but I tense up when my boss is looking over my shoulder. I stress over what websites I visit at the office during my lunch break and censor my emails. I drive safely, but my blood pressure increases when a police officer is following me closely. Stress under scrutiny is one of the most fundamental aspects of human nature. It’s why your pulse is rarely accurate at the doctor’s office. You might be fine with it, but I do not accept being reduced to a lab rat in a maze on streets that my tax dollars fund, and find “the roads are public” to be thin rationalization for it.

Call it a police state, call it a nanny state, call it whatever. These surveillance grids are going up all over the country, thanks in no small part to grants from the Department of Homeland Security. Sure, a few dozen cameras downtown might not seem like a big deal. A few dozen more at intersections. A few dozen more at public parks and communal areas around town. It’s a slippery slope though. Look no further than England. They started putting up a few cameras here and there a decade ago, and now there are cameras on the streets of London with built-in speakers for the police to yell at citizens for jaywalking or littering. Their schools have cameras in the bathroom stalls. And ironically enough, a law was just passed this week in England making it a criminal offense, carrying up to ten years in prison, to photograph or film police officers. That’s not what America needs.

There is an old saying that goes: “Absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Quite frankly, I don’t trust the United States government. With Congressional approval ratings as low as 9% in the last year, it appears as if I am not alone. I don’t trust the Department of Homeland Security and NSA. With illegal prisons around the world, White House-authorized torture, rendition practices, and arbitrary abuse of every type of surveillance on the book, they can’t even seem to get themselves a conviction to back it all up. I have no reason to trust them either.

And God knows I don’t trust the City of Jacksonville. You want to trust the same people to monitor your behavior each and every day that can’t even fix a freakin fountain?

It in no way takes a “conspiracist” to come to the conclusion that Americans are being surveilled in record numbers. It’s black and white fact, backed up by the most trusted news organizations in America. Your phone calls are fair game. Your emails are fair game. Your IM’s, text messages, credit card records, financial transaction, bank statements, library logs, website visits, travel information. All being pumped directly to the NSA. Some it is delivered from the telecoms and financial institutions. Much of it is delivered from cooperative local agencies, who send your information to the NSA through regional Department of Homeland Security Fusion Centers. Ours is in Tallahassee.

The NSA is gathering and permanently databasing information, not on criminals or overseas threats, but on American Citizens just like me and you. Journalists are prime targets. As our those engaged in anti-war or civil liberties groups. Some people’s information is culled and archived simply because they happened to place a couple of phone calls in one day that lasted less that a minute (terrorists tend to make short calls, says the CIA).

To imply that this information is somehow exclusive to conspiracists is instead an acknowledgement that one has simply failed to read a decent newspaper in the last five years.

Once the cameras go up, they aren’t coming down. Historically, they’ll follow the same pattern of suburban sprawl as our fine citizens have as well. You want to permanently cede that type of power over and trust that your local, regional, state, and federal authorities will never abuse it? Be my guest. Even better, you’ll get to fund it yourself. But, if we are foolish enough to use something as slip-shod as “history” as a basis for decision making, these things never tend to end well.

[Johnny]

This thread sounds like it was modeled after the movie Eagle Eye.

[NotNow]

"The NSA is gathering and permanently databasing information, not on criminals or overseas threats, but on American Citizens just like me and you. Journalists are prime targets. As our those engaged in anti-war or civil liberties groups. Some people’s information is culled and archived simply because they happened to place a couple of phone calls in one day that lasted less that a minute (terrorists tend to make short calls, says the CIA)."

Ken, what is your source for this claim?

"It in no way takes a “conspiracist” to come to the conclusion that Americans are being surveilled in record numbers. It’s black and white fact, backed up by the most trusted news organizations in America. Your phone calls are fair game. Your emails are fair game. Your IM’s, text messages, credit card records, financial transaction, bank statements, library logs, website visits, travel information. All being pumped directly to the NSA. Some it is delivered from the telecoms and financial institutions. Much of it is delivered from cooperative local agencies, who send your information to the NSA through regional Department of Homeland Security Fusion Centers. Ours is in Tallahassee."

And this? 

Both of these statements are false and the actions described are illegal.

[KenFSU]

It's closing in on midnight and I'm exhausted, but no, these statements are not false. They are backed up by the New York Times, Washington Post, USA Today, etc. They are also backed up by former members of the NSA, such as Russell Tice. Watch this MSNBC clip for a small sample:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osFprWnCjPA&feature=related

The fact that the Pentagon and intelligence agencies has been spying on anti-war movements for over five years has been all over the news. A simple Google search will return dozens of stories from the most credible of sources saying the same thing. USA Today broke the story on phone logs nearly four years ago. The New York Times broke the story on phone taps. The LA Times broke the story on Financial Transactions. The Department of Homeland Security website will give you all the information you need to know on the Fusion Centers.

Illegal, yes.

False, absolutely not.