Federal regulation may stop JTA shuttles to stadium next year

[Ocklawaha]

But, Ock we would still be running those services at a loss....should we really be provding any service at a loss?

Provide service at a loss? Your a daisy if you do.

God knows there is a severe shortage of daisy's in Jacksonville.

As Lakelander pointed out, many vital services run at a loss - Heck the John down the hall operates at a loss, but I wouldn't want to live without it. (Tried that in the Andes).

An argument could probably be made that JTB or Atlantic give us some return on investment by opening routes of new trade and commerce. But the extreme stretch of that expansion places an unfair burden on the taxpayer to continuously chase the growth, down an ever expanding roadway, with schools, police, lighting, water, sewers etc... All of this stuff costs of dearly, which makes a clear statement about the desirability of dense development stimulated by streetcar and other fixed route transit.

Lakelander keeps bringing up the notion of livability or walkability and I think most of us don't have a clue what that means in the long term. Just one fringe benefit is we live healthier lives, making for a much more contented society. Imagine that many police in the tightly packed city's of the UK don't even carry a firearm. A hidden savings in a content but livable populous.

Development will still happen but it will look more like a modern version of old 5-Points and San Marco, rather then Kernan or Blanding.

The notion of walking across the street to a restaurant, or bakery has an attraction far more valuable then walking across the local Target Store parking lot. A real hard currency value has been placed on this infill development which follows fixed transit, with every streetcar or LRT project to come on line. Last time I checked the numbers, the new development stimulated by Streetcars were running about $1,200 dollars for EVERY DOLLAR INVESTED.

A loss? Not hardly.

OCKLAWAHA

[jtwestside]

Lakelander pointed out, many vital services run at a loss - Heck the John down the hall operates at a loss, but I wouldn't want to live without it. (Tried that in the Andes).

I don't mind the services being given at a loss. God knows the government runs at a loss (it's just what they do). However I think this issue specifically is that it's seen as another subsidy for the big money grubbing NFL team.  I don't agree with that 100% but since we also have bus companies in town for school service why shouldn't they be able to bid for the account to provide service? Or anyone else for that matter.

In a perfect world there would be multiple ways to get downtown, BRT, cable car out Main/Phillips Atlantic, rail out Roosevelt and Normandy, JTB, Blanding etc etc etc .... Jacksonville is basically one big spoke.
.

[Ocklawaha]

In a perfect world there would be multiple ways to get downtown, BRT, cable car out Main/Phillips Atlantic, rail out Roosevelt and Normandy, JTB, Blanding etc etc etc .... Jacksonville is basically one big spoke.
.

ALL SPOKES - NO WHEELS

OCKLAWAHA

[fsu813]

This should have been cut a loooooooooong time ago. We are too deep in money problems to be spending public money on getting fans to games. They have brains and can figure it out. I do, it isn't as difficult as it's made out to be.

[JeffreyS]

We spend money getting people to games because the communuty makes more money if more people attend the games. The NFL is good for the city.

[jtwestside]

Tell me how putting people on busses bringing them into downtown to watch a game, then back on a bus back out of downtown is good for the city, or downtown? It doesn't encourage the use of any existing public transportation, doesn't encourage the patronage of any downtown businesses or parks ... So while I may agree with the ambiguous “The NFL is good for the city” it could be a lot better on game days than just shuttling people in and out of downtown. 

[JeffreyS]

While a good private bid is best keeping the games on TV and the team in town by any reasonable means to that end helps all of NE Florida not just downtown IMO. JTA shuttles should cater perfectly to out of towners staying in diffrent parts of the core. Without knowing the approximate loss it is hard to say if we are getting bang for our buck.

[thelakelander]

Private operators might provide transportation for football games

JTA hears from companies interested in shuttle service

The public transit agency that has been busing people to football games at Jacksonville Municipal Stadium since 1995 now says it will look for a private company to replace it.

And a federal agency said it is investigating whether the Jacksonville Transportation Authority should have provided the service last year.

Under a ruling that went into effect in April, JTA must cede control of the bus service to a private company even if that company charges higher fares. And JTA can only offer service to games if no private company wants to do it.

Earlier this week, JTA said no companies had come forward. Now, two have.

Annett Bus Lines and American Coach Lines, two Florida charters with offices in Jacksonville, say they are interested. But they said they would need more information before they could commit and stressed they might not have enough buses to do it on their own.

Neither could estimate how much they might charge in fares.

JTA said it would be surprised if anyone wanted to take over the service because private companies would lose money doing it, as JTA said it had every year.

But after the authority reviewed its 2008 books, spokesman Mike Miller said Wednesday that it made a $50,000 profit after losing $120,000 the year before.

full article: http://www.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-01-28/story/private_bus_operators_might_provide_transportation_to_stadium

[exnewsman]

You may want to watch the story on JTA Making Moves available on the JTA website (see the November show) on this story.  It outlines the criteria as to why the FTA started shutting down shuttle services nationwide. Also, it gives shows a map how many other cities actually had to stop the service - not just NFL. Other factors any other company would have to consider - enough buses and available park-n-ride lots. If a company has to pay to lease more vehicles or parking for the customers - both of which JTA already has in abundance - then it may become cost prohibitive.
In Seattle - a company came in and said it could do the service for X amount - and then when it couldn't - their contract was pulled by FTA (and they could face fines). I believe the transit authority is back offer service. So theri may be companies interested - but will anyone be willing to pay $25 a ride to get their.  The JTA story suggests not (interviews with some fans).

http://www.jtafla.com/News/showPage.aspx?Sel=43

[Ocklawaha]

This should have been cut a loooooooooong time ago. We are too deep in money problems to be spending public money on getting fans to games. They have brains and can figure it out. I do, it isn't as difficult as it's made out to be.

No one is suggesting to cut it.

Do you really want all those folks driving into the downtown at once? I can tell you that if we dropped public OR private bus service to the stadiums you wouldn't want to go there! There would be a traffic jam big enough to make the first Mayport Jazz Festival look like a sunday school picnic. 

Did someone really question the ridership? Doesn't matter that much if we are having a Jaguars Game or Rollings Stones/Bruce Springstein Concert, or a SUPER BOWL. 20,000 people all driving cars into the city center within an hour or two of each other would be a disaster. 50,000 would be a national emergency! Did you know just for the Super Bowl game alone, we had 450,000 riders on the transit system, over 100,000 on the SKYWAY!

Now someone PLEASE tell me why finishing the Skyway is a bad idea?

Why this bus service should have been cut long ago?

I don't care who provides the bus service, I know Annett and worked with them at Trailways. Y'all would LOVE their equipment over what JTA owns. But you have to wonder if paying $20 dollars each way for the private coach would make you feel more American?

The answer of course would be to build up and provide a downtown transit core with fast frequent regular scheduled services - 24/7. The only way to do that is for City Hall to realize this is only one venue in a string of downtown pearls. Pearls that could be strung together and illuminated setting off a downtown building boom that would shine brighter then the sun.

Wanna Bet? Well we could always move the team to Orlando, hell at LEAST THEY have a Courthouse! (I HATE MICKEY!)

OCKLAWAHA

[JeffreyS]

But after the authority reviewed its 2008 books, spokesman Mike Miller said Wednesday that it made a $50,000 profit after losing $120,000 the year before.

OK we can end all the debate on should we do it if the JTA has made this kind of progress on the costs. A private bid should now have to make the city more than the $50k a year. Kudos JTA