Peyton's Struggles: The Convention Center

[urbanlibertarian]

What is the cost of the Nashville CC?  Are they getting federal stimulus money?  Is it taking property off the tax rolls?

[mtraininjax]

To become a workable convention center, it requires us to invest money in building duplicate complementing uses (convention center hotel, restaurants, entertainment, etc.).  This ultimately ends up in a battle of competition between existing and new businesses (if we can actually attract the new uses).  So in the end, we could end up paying more if forced into keeping the isolated Prime Osborn site and providing incentives to encourage new private sector uses in a market that can't support them.

Oh great one, you probably saw that the guys in the Brooklyn redevelopment deal just put 3 of 4 parcels up for sale, after they tore down historic buildings for their plans. Another fantastic job for the JEDC to tear down history, for an empty promise, suprised the Fire Station is still standing on Forest and Riverside. But I digress, no one has any money for development downtown, so why waste it on the Prime? City is bleeding red, and will do so more next year when property values continue to decline.

You got no city money, no state money, you need Obama money, and his money is borrowed money! 

[tufsu1]

this is the perfect time to do some planning....so the City isn't behind when the market turns around....unlike the boom from 2001-2006 which the City got into late.

[coredumped]

Any update on this? Is that mayor not going to address this because he really has too much on his plate? Are we stuck in limbo until he leaves?

[Steve]

He claims to want to do some planning (it was part of his press conference Thursday).  However I'm not sure if I believe him.  I think the average Jacksonville resident would believe Dick Cheney over him at this point.

However, I'd love nothing more than to be proven wrong.

[Ocklawaha]

To become a workable convention center, it requires us to invest money in building duplicate complementing uses (convention center hotel, restaurants, entertainment, etc.).  This ultimately ends up in a battle of competition between existing and new businesses (if we can actually attract the new uses).  So in the end, we could end up paying more if forced into keeping the isolated Prime Osborn site and providing incentives to encourage new private sector uses in a market that can't support them.

Oh great one, you probably saw that the guys in the Brooklyn redevelopment deal just put 3 of 4 parcels up for sale, after they tore down historic buildings for their plans. Another fantastic job for the JEDC to tear down history, for an empty promise, suprised the Fire Station is still standing on Forest and Riverside. But I digress, no one has any money for development downtown, so why waste it on the Prime? City is bleeding red, and will do so more next year when property values continue to decline.

You got no city money, no state money, you need Obama money, and his money is borrowed money! 

Damn MTrainnJax, I think you finally hit on something we'd both agree with... "We're going to SPEND ourselves RICH!" Uh Huh? Need some bucks, just go print em up... Why my new place ought to be worth 10 to 20 million in a couple of years, and if I sell out and take all my money to Publix, I could probably buy a pack of hot dogs and some buns with it. I've lived this story, try Latin America where a bottle of shampoo might cost $20,000 pesos.

My only diversion from your thoughts would be, if we're going to jump off this cliff, we might as well build what ever it is in Jacksonville, rather then Kenosha.

OCKLAWAHA

[coredumped]

He claims to want to do some planning (it was part of his press conference Thursday). 

Thanks Steve I must have missed that. I would love for at least the land to be set aside. Then let the next administration take it from there.

[Ocklawaha]

For those of you that still don't get why the Prime Osbourne and Jacksonville Terminal can't coexist, I'll offer an analogy.

Imagine a large Church, people come and go on regular schedules, it's easy on the eyes, completely functional... Right in the center court yard someone decides to build a 5 floor Gentleman's Club. So now we have another large group of people coming in at all hours. Try as you might this isn't going to fly Wilbur...

Finally a building that I really WANT to see blown down. Get that damn convention floor space off the old railroad yard YESTERDAY and let's get Amtrak, JTA, SEHSR, and FDOT relaying track. Nothing like the sweet scent of creosote and molten metal in the early morning, all to the tune of ringing steel. God it will be beautiful! Think I'm going to start my own line of after shave for railroaders...Ode de Creosote!

OCKLAWAHA

[Steve]

Nice Ock - I'll have to get some Aftershave.

[Steve]

On a serious note, that site is a TERRIBLE place for a Convention Center.  There is no anchor hotel, and there is not a single standing building for five blocks.  Frankly, given what we have turned the site into, I don't know if there is a worse one in all of downtown.

The current courthouse site makes the most sense to me.  We're not going to build another 1,000 room hotel anytime soon, so I think we need to bring the convention center to it.

Here are the only things that I ask: Design the building so it has decent retail space facing Bay St (at least 70 feet clear to the back wall of the retail bays), and keep Market Street opened. 

[reednavy]

What is the cost of the Nashville CC?  Are they getting federal stimulus money?  Is it taking property off the tax rolls?

Originally estimated at $650mil, the cost is likely lower due to building products falling in cost. No, stimulus dollars will not be used, and it will be paid for by a few cents more on tourism related stuff such as hotel rooms. The hop to break ground by the end of the year or early next year. Purchase of the properties may be done as early as next month.

Not the biggest fan of the surroundings in the renderings, especially the skyscrapers. Which have been horribly chopped.

[mtraininjax]

Nothing like the sweet scent of creosote and molten metal in the early morning, all to the tune of ringing steel.

Use Concrete, costs a bit more, but lasts longer and stronger to support future trains of all types.

CC needs to go on the river, turn the Shipyards or the JEA spaces into the CC, no one wants to look at McCoy's creek in a CC hotel. If the river is our focal point, we really need to have the CC on the river.

[krazeeboi]

To see what could also be possible in Jacksonville by building a new convention center, here's a rendering of the proposed 40-story, 1,000-room convention center hotel in Nashville, to be built next to the new convention center:

[billy]

Who is the architect?

[krazeeboi]

John Portman & Associates, Inc.