Deal with Mayport community over cruise terminal falls apart

[Captain Zissou]

I understand that there is opposition from the Mayport community for this dying fishing village.

Does there really need to be any further discussion on this?  Let the thing die and put the area to better use.  We're never going to make any progress as a city or a regional destination if we let a few crying delinquents prevent positive growth.

[Jason]

Lake, I can definitely see the wisdom in persuing a more niche market with the smaller ships.  But why can't we enjoy both as an option?  A big ship or two at Mayport and then a couple smaller high-end ships downtown?

Jacksonville is much closer to Caribbean destinations than other ports further north.  Yeah, we likely will never fully compete with South Florida but we can easily compete with the other guys above us.  A downtown terminal is a fantastic idea and could benefit the core immensely.

[Ocklawaha]

CRUISE FROM JACKSONVILLE:

U.K. - Bermuda - Hamilton Wed 2:32 PM 1622 km 1008 miles 876 nm  EbN
Jamaica - Kingston Wed 1:32 PM 1456 km 905 miles 786 nm  SSE
U.S.A. - New York - New York Wed 1:32 PM 1350 km 839 miles 729 nm  NEbN
Bahamas - Nassau Wed 1:32 PM 725 km 450 miles 391 nm  SEbS
U.S.A. - South Carolina - Charleston Wed 1:32 PM 318 km 197 miles 171 nm  NEbN
U.S.A. - Georgia - Savannah Wed 1:32 PM 211 km 131 miles 114 nm  NbE
UK - London - Distance is 6874 kilometers or 4271 miles or 3712 nautical miles
Spain - Santa Cruz - Canary Islando - Distance is 6263 kilometers or 3891 miles or 3382 nautical miles


CRUISE FROM MIAMI

U.K. - Bermuda - Hamilton Wed 2:55 PM 1666 km 1035 miles 900 nm  NEbE
Jamaica - Kingston Wed 1:55 PM 935 km 581 miles 505 nm  SSE
U.S.A. - New York - New York Wed 1:55 PM 1758 km 1092 miles 949 nm  NNE
Bahamas - Nassau Wed 1:55 PM 301 km 187 miles 163 nm  EbS
U.S.A. - South Carolina - Charleston Wed 1:55 PM 778 km 483 miles 420 nm  N
U.S.A. - Georgia - Savannah Wed 1:55 PM 710 km 441 miles 383 nm  NbW
UK - London - Distance is 7140 kilometers or 4437 miles or 3855 nautical miles
Spain - Santa Cruz - Canary Islands - Distance is 6274 kilometers or 3899 miles or 3388 nautical miles

With the exception of Jamaica, all of the above are popular non-Caribbean destinations. Consider that Miami and Bahamas locations are close enough that over-night cruises are pretty much out of the question, but by the time you reach Nassau, Jacksonville nearly pulls even.

Who says we can't compete for the big ships?

OCKLAWAHA

[ProjectMaximus]

http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2009/01/12/daily52.html

[Charles Hunter]

Gee, don't you think they'd think of that before they committed so much financial and political capital?

[02roadking]

The Jacksonville Port Authority board today decided to withdraw its request for City Council to support building a cruise terminal in Mayport Village.


http://www.jacksonville.com/business/2009-03-02/story/jaxport_board_pulls_back_from_mayport_cruise_terminal

[GatorShane]

After first hearing about this I was pissed. Another lost opportunity for Jacksonville. But after some serious deliberation I am now on board with a downtown terminal. Let Mayport have there crusty little fishing village. When a mid sized terminal is located downtown and it brings all that come with it, the villagers will be in awe because the Govt isn't going to give fishing villages any stimulus money. Good luck in the future Mayporters, you just passed on a golden opportunity. Lets get this thing downtown.

[Charles Hunter]

A downtown terminal will be limited in size to the American Cruise Line type ship that currently stop at the Hyatt, and cruise the Intercoastal up to Savannah or Charleston.  Ships much bigger won't be able to get under the Mathews or Hart bridges (maybe 150'?).  If that's the niche we want, fine, but with ocean cruisers getting too big for the JEA power lines and Dames Pt. bridge at 175', we are out of the ocean cruise business soon.

With JaxPort dropping efforts to move the cruise terminal to Mayport, what does this mean for Hanjin?  One of the reasons to move to Mayport was JaxPort sold (gave?) the land where the cruise terminal is now to Hanjin.  The cruise terminal had to move soon to give them time to build the Hanjin container terminal.  Does this mean Hanjin will be delayed?  Or do we just get out of the cruise business when it is time to build their port?

[JeffreyS]

The port is not out.  When Hanjin is ready to use the current cruise ship land Jax port will build the new terminal.  Meanwhile all the organization of the "resistance" will be gone and have to be reconstructed quickly and because all the while the land use will be up in the air property values will fall faster than even the current climate. No one will invest in any business or improvements to the area because of uncertainty of what the port will do.  So Mayport is screwed and even though I think the residents should have embraced the cruise terminal. I feel sad that they will now suffer even more for trying to promote their own vision of their neighborhood.

[ProjectMaximus]

If that's the niche we want, fine, but with ocean cruisers getting too big for the JEA power lines and Dames Pt. bridge at 175', we are out of the ocean cruise business soon.

Can't we do both? Is that asking too much? Niche cruises from downtown, and a viable full-size cruise port out east?

With JaxPort dropping efforts to move the cruise terminal to Mayport, what does this mean for Hanjin?  One of the reasons to move to Mayport was JaxPort sold (gave?) the land where the cruise terminal is now to Hanjin.  The cruise terminal had to move soon to give them time to build the Hanjin container terminal.  Does this mean Hanjin will be delayed?  Or do we just get out of the cruise business when it is time to build their port?

http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2009/03/02/daily7.html

He said the existing cruise terminal can continue operating for two to three years until the construction of Hanjin Shipping Co. Ltd’s container terminal begins. Mason said the authority will determine within that “window” whether the cruise industry will hold up in the recession and still want to call on Jacksonville.

[Charles Hunter]

OK, thanks, I had not seen the Business Journal, and the TV news did not include that, just interviewing former TV reporter Nancy Rubin.  What is the lead time needed to build a cruise terminal at Mayport?  For example, if they want to start building Hanjin on (totally random date) Jan. 1, 2011; when would they have to start building the Mayport terminal to be out of the way in time?

[BridgeTroll]

Another reason why large cruises do not want to begin and end downtown (Aside from the bridge height) is the time and distance to the open ocean.  Large cruise ships do not want to spend two hours each way navigating the river contending with tides and currents to dock downtown.  They want quick and easy access to the ocean so they can cruise at an efficient speed and open their casinos.