A Day at the Jacksonville Farmer's Market

[jtwestside]

Although, at the same stoplight, the location also shifted to a parcel to the west.  So in reality it did move.  What's there is not historic or the original site of the market.

Yes, I concede it was "shifted" in it's lot. You do understand that I was referring to moving something that actually works and thrives because it's not where some here would consider a "hip" place? It's very much in the same location, not empty in hemming plaza, or rotting without patrons at the landing as many suggested it should be back when it was "shifted". The farmers market would be dead right now if either of those had taken place. Many other markets have come and gone in other parts of the city during the long history of the FM.

I'm all for developing the Beaver St corridor. There are a number of historical buildings on and around Beaver that have heaps of potential. Maybe we could enlist the Peyton Mafia for assistance.

If you want something to die somewhere else, fine. But the Farmers market thrives where and how it is. Leave it alone.

[thelakelander]

Yes, I concede it was "shifted" in it's lot. You do understand that I was referring to moving something that actually works and thrives because it's not where some here would consider a "hip" place?

Yes.  However, you must admit, although the market may be successful, the surrounding commercial corridor and neighborhood has been on its knees since probably the 1950s/60s.  When we talked about moving the market location, the move suggestion was not made because it would be a "hip" thing to do.  It was made because it would place the market in a location that would help spread redevelopment around the market.  The hope was, instead of having just a successful market, we would have a successful "market district". 

It's very much in the same location, not empty in hemming plaza, or rotting without patrons at the landing as many suggested it should be back when it was "shifted". The farmers market would be dead right now if either of those had taken place. Many other markets have come and gone in other parts of the city during the long history of the FM.

The suggested location made by Metro Jacksonville, was a large vacant warehouse property right off the corner of Beaver & Myrtle, a few blocks from the Beaver Street viaduct.  That way, it would have been in the same industrial neighborhood, yet have visibility from I-95 and and closer proximity to a large collection of vacant warehouses (additional private sector infill wholesale opportunities) on surrounding streets.  I think we can both agree, a market such as this would not work, and should not be located, in the heart of downtown.


ABOVE: This large vacant warehouse sits directly in the middle of what was once a bustling industrial district along Beaver Street, only a short distance away from the current market.  However, unlike the current and proposed locations, a large number of abandoned brick warehouse facilities lie nearby and its visible from I-95, as well as located a short block from I-95's interchange with Church Street.  This site is superior in every fashion to the current and proposed market site.  With JEDC involved and Beaver Street asking for incentives to construct new sheds, that money could go toward purchasing the existing brick warehouse, which already includes covered space, parking areas, land for open air vendors and loading docks for trucks.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/262

I'm all for developing the Beaver St corridor. There are a number of historical buildings on and around Beaver that have heaps of potential. Maybe we could enlist the Peyton Mafia for assistance.

We're on the same page.  Even when we pushed for relocation, we never wanted to see it taken away from the Beaver Street industrial district. 

If you want something to die somewhere else, fine. But the Farmers market thrives where and how it is. Leave it alone.

Clustering and better connectivity makes things succeed.  If you think the market is successful now, you'll be shocked with the level of success it can have if it became a part of a "market district".  When the market asked for assistance from the JEDC to help fund new sheds, that was our opportunity to lay the foundation for what could have grown into a "district".  Shortsightedness, took that opportunity away.  Now that the public investment has been made, its better to attempt to make the best of where its at.

[jtwestside]

Sorry, I wasn't lurking MJ at the time. I was going by what the local media was reporting as the "alternatives". There are many out there who think just because something is working in one place and this other place (that they want to do well) we can just smash the two together and voila! You usually just end up doing irrefutable harm to both.

I know that wasn't what you were suggesting lake, but I did think so at first (sorry).

[stjr]

Lake, in theory you may be onto something.  I share your dream for such a district.

But I am not sure your designated site is actually more connected than the present one for the Farmers Market.  Your site is in in the midst of a much larger industrial area with lots of big open spaces around buildings for trucks coming and going.  I don't see the same building density indicated in your photos of other cities.  Most of the buildings themselves are relatively small.  Sizable residential areas are many blocks away cut off by the sprawling industrial sector so I don't think you have any real connectivity there.  Likewise, it doesn't appear to be very conducive to pedestrian or bicycle traffic.

As to redeveloping surrounding buildings, food distributors and manufacturers today need large buildings, lots of refrigeration, and very high sanitation - all of which are usually cost prohibitive to retro fit into these old buildings while passing ever stricter codes and standards.  If it's restaurants or boutique food establishments, they may have similar problems, albeit they might have an easier time with the smaller scale.   Regardless, the distances between buildings, the missing connectivity to residential areas, and the interweaving of remaining heavy industry would appear to discourage anything along the lines you suggest unless a total area redevelopment plan was implemented with a lot of new infill buildings to increase the density.  After the LaVilla fiasco, I wouldn't sit around waiting for that. 

At the present Farmers Market location, it is in the midst of a relatively small industrial footprint focused mostly in a straightline up and down Beaver Street.  Importantly, as you move into the area behind the northside of Beaver Street, it is high density residential.  This residential area is vast, under-retailed, and extends all the way down Beaver Street and Kings Road to Edgewood picking up areas like Woodstock and Paxon.  A bonus is the Stockton Street connection one block west that goes into the heart of Riverside/Avondale.  There is some connectivity (no doubt it could always be better) to these areas with sidewalks, buses, bicycles, and lots of streets funneling into that area of Beaver Street including Commonwealth and Broadway (whose terminations feed into Robinson which, conveniently, comes out at the traffic light with the Farmers Market).  These area residents provide a core clientele for the FM and find it quite convenient.  I see crossing the Beaver Street viaduct as a psychological impediment to such locals akin to getting people at the Beach to cross the inland coastal waterway bridges or getting Arlington and Southside residents to cross the bridges into downtown.

As for development, not to be overlooked, there are lots of food related businesses in the area including Condaxis Coffee and Tea, Beaver Street Fisheries, Preferred Freezers, Good Times, Premier Foods (for now defunct), White Wave Foods, and Load King (it makes stainless steel equipment for the food industry).  There are a number of buildings in the immediate area, especially on the north side of Beaver, that could accommodate the additional restaurants, etc. you envision if they were more appreciated for their potential (after all, there are no restaurants of note from Downtown to Edgewood on Beaver Street, some 5 miles of a 4 lane highway, with thousands of surrounding residents.  Talk about a missed opportunity!  Of course, a rebuilt Beaver Street wouldn't hurt.)

To sum it up, no location is perfect, but the current one works pretty well even if it's not so obvious why.  It has a good balance of superior connectivity to the neighborhood as things presently stand and to the greater North Florida and South Georgia area with the nearby I-95 and I-10 exits vs. available alternatives for the foreseeable future.  The proof is in the pudding - the Farmers Market, and even its surrounding area, seems to be up and coming.

[thelakelander]

I'd explain the reason behind my relocation madness in graphics, but I'm in Orlando right now with no access to photoshop.  In any event, you make very good points about the potential of the current location and Beaver Street corridor (west of the viaduct).  In my previous thinking, I put more importance on the building density along Myrtle and the visual proximity to I-95 than the residential community immediately north of Beaver.  As far as connectivity to the DT core, I think this can eventually be achieved if the farmer's market area became a west terminal stop for a DT streetcar system.

While I don't think the Beaver Street corridor is up and coming, at this point, it does have potential if the market could be better integrated.  When I get back to town, I'll add a few graphics to explain what's floating around in my head.

[valashay]

I have always loved the farmers market it is so much fun you can find all kinds of vegetables and fruits that I had never heard of.  I have been going since I was a child and passed that experience on to my children.  It really is a great place it could use some more publicity and should expand where it is.  I did like the idea to bring it on the Northbank but I guess some saw to many dollars for that site. v

[thelakelander]

Btw, JTA's system redesign includes extending the Beaver Street PCT Trolley to provide service to the Farmer's Market.  That's a pretty good idea, imo.

[stjr]

Btw, JTA's system redesign includes extending the Beaver Street PCT Trolley to provide service to the Farmer's Market.  That's a pretty good idea, imo.

Beginning Tuesday, May 5th, the FREE Beaver Street Trolley will be stopping every 50 minutes at the Beaver Street Farmers Market, Monday through Friday, except holidays.  If you work Downtown or have visitors in the hotels, you need to get them to ride this service (did I say, its FREE!) to the Farmers Market.

Here is the link to JTA for the current map and schedule: http://www.jtafla.com/Graphics/Schedules/Trolley/BeaverStreet/BeaverStreet.pdf  Look for an update by Tuesday, May 5th, the inaugural day of the added service  (per the Financial Daily News & Record).  [/b]

Support the service, or, as you can see in the article below, it may not be sustained!:
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=52199&text=trolley&type=thisexactphrase

04/17/2009

JTA curtailing Trolley service May 4
by Max Marbut

Staff Writer

People who ride the JTA’s Laura & Ocean Trolley to get to points from the FCCJ-Rosa Parks bus station to the Courthouse Annex on Bay Street and back again to the station will have to find a new means of transportation effective May 4.

That was one of the announcements made Wednesday at Downtown Vision, Inc.’s quarterly operations meeting.

Regional Transportation Planner James Boyle of JTA said the level of ridership doesn’t warrant continuing to offer the service. He suggested that after the service ends those who have been using the trolley should take the Skyway to Hemming Plaza and then continue on foot to their destination.

Midday service on the Bay Street Trolley that serves the parking lot at St. Andrews Station near the Arena will also be changed. The trips per hour will be reduced except during the peak morning and evening periods.

Describing those two changes as “the bad news,” Boyle announced that discussions are underway with interests in Springfield to inaugurate trolley service between Downtown’s core and UF Shands Hospital. If it’s eventually approved, service to Springfield won’t begin until sometime next year when the Main Street construction project is completed, said Boyle.

Also in the “good news” department, Boyle said the Beaver Street Trolley route will be expanded May 5 to include the Beaver Street Farmer’s Market.

[fsujax]

Too bad, Boyle wasn't annoucing the funding/construction of a streecar line!

[Shwaz]

Too bad it doesn't run on the weekends.. I'm sure I'm not the only one working Mon-Fri.

[stjr]

An FYI, the Jacksonville Farmers Market just finished widening a third aisle to add more parking and they covered another couple of acres with asphalt millings to expand the wholesale and farmer's truck and trailer areas.  Looks like lot's more farmers with the expanded space.  Try and catch most of farmers in the first half of the day most days as they sell out and go back to the farm.

Saw some new plant vendors including one selling grape vines and another is back with live chickens and goats!.  As usual, a packed Saturday today.

[stjr]

Just saw some publicity that the Jacksonville Farmers Market is featuring a celebration tomorrow (Saturday) from 10 AM to 2 PM called Fresh Food For Families. Apparently, they are kicking off that some participating vendors are now taking food stamps and credit/debit cards.

For the first 750 families buying at least $10 at the Jacksonville Farmers Market with food stamps, they are giving away a free bag of sample produce.