JTA meetings on the future of the Skyway

[jcjohnpaint]

They need to turn the system off and let people walk up there and get cooked alive. Such a stupid idea. I took the survey and felt it was attempting to discredit any other option through crap data on each page. Adding the Navi to the trail option was not even mentioned as many mentioned. Reading comments on social media, it didn't seem like the walking path was too popular. This makes me doubt any of the findings. The only way this is going to go away is if Ford is forced out. The mayor needs to distance herself from this.

[jaxoNOLE]

They need to turn the system off and let people walk up there and get cooked alive.

Exactly. Every survey/charette they've done with the public on riverfront parks has emphasized shade as a priority. Nothing screams "fun" like being trapped on an elevated sidewalk in the Florida sun, staring down at bars, restaurants, and cafes you can't readily access.

It may be slightly more useful as a dedicated cycle & scooter track to actually facilitate movement through downtown and keep the sidewalks pedestrian-friendly, but I cannot imagine spending any significant sum of money to enable that vision would be worthwhile.

[jcjohnpaint]

I don't know how adding the width to fit more than one person would not include a rebuild of the structure, especially adding shade and seating aspects. Would like to know the cost of that.

[thelakelander]

^Yeah, I fully expect that idea to die a quick death, just like their plan to build a low bridge crossing across the river between the Main Street Bridge and stadium. Common sense would have said that was not feasible, eliminating the need to spend tax money on renderings and consulting.

[Jankelope]

Do you have renderings or information on that project? That sounds like a genuinely crazy idea and I can't believe anyone thought it was logisticaly feasible lol.

[marcuscnelson]

The Times-Union out with new cost estimates for each alternative, provided to the JTA Board at a workshop today ahead of public meetings next month and a final recommendation at the end of October.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2026/08/26/jta-reveals-estimated-costs-for-skyway-future-alternatives/91479651007/

Read the article for more details, but here are the topline sums in the article's order:

• Rehabilitate the existing Skyway to add 10-12 years of life: $276 million
• Place new APM trains on the Skyway structure & extend to Brooklyn: $428 million
• Convert the Skyway to accommodate NAVI & add ramps: $294 million
• Demolish the Skyway & operate NAVI in mixed traffic: $152 million
• Turn the Skyway into an elevated trail & operate NAVI in mixed traffic: $260 million
• Build a modern streetcar at street level: $565 million
• Do (essentially) nothing: $15 million

[marcuscnelson]

I, uh... I hope there's some way to get some more clarity on the source of these numbers and how they can perhaps be adjusted.

Recalling that they've reportedly spent about $7 million for HNTB to handle this study work, there's only about $240 million available through the gas tax right now, and that depends on whether City Council changes that. Anything beyond that number requires new funding from someone, whether via grants from the FTA and FDOT or new local funding.

Reducing the value of the infrastructure through conversion to NAVI or a trail seems like a nonstarter to me, especially when it'd be competing with the Emerald Trail or producing more uncomfortable shuttle service people clearly don't want to ride. It's unclear if the streetcar option includes demolishing the Skyway, but frankly I don't buy that JTA actually wants to bother with a streetcar after how their leadership spent so long demeaning rail transit. These numbers are just really hard to take seriously when we already know what the internal culture at JTA is like around pushing U2C at all costs. We have to consider the possibility of what conclusion these numbers are meant to push the board, and the public, towards.

I think I'd like to see more detail about what's possible between that $15 million alternative and the $276 million one. I wonder if perhaps the latter is meant to be directly equivalent to the ongoing Metromover renovations in Miami, and are thereby too gold-plated instead of focused on the essentials. Can we find some ways to value engineer those to get working trains and functioning train control so that people can use the Skyway but still buy us more time to have a better plan under better leadership? Maybe instead of trying to give one company a huge design-build contract like with NAVI, we can get a better deal with focusing on exactly what needs to be fixed? Any other ideas?

[Steve]

Does any of what JTA is saying now truly matter? Like if Nat Ford is leaving, just let the new person figure it out.

Making a decision of this magnitude in a leadership transition would be professional malpractice.

[thelakelander]

I, uh... I hope there's some way to get some more clarity on the source of these numbers and how they can perhaps be adjusted.

LOL, I don't trust numbers prepared by JTA one bit. Naturally, they are cooked to make NAVI look like the cheapest option. NAVI is a van. Those cars can't even move half the people that some of the other options can. Also, the streetcar thing is a bit of an odd ball. What's the route and what type of system is it? Single tracked? Double tracked? Why Modern Streetcar and not something like El Paso's? After the NAVI fiasco and them being over $30 million in debt, some independent, third party analysis is needed.

[thelakelander]

Making a decision of this magnitude in a leadership transition would be professional malpractice.

The last decade at JTA has been just that.....professional malpractice.

[thelakelander]

Can we find some ways to value engineer those to get working trains and functioning train control so that people can use the Skyway but still buy us more time to have a better plan under better leadership? Maybe instead of trying to give one company a huge design-build contract like with NAVI, we can get a better deal with focusing on exactly what needs to be fixed? Any other ideas?

There's a company out there on the record saying they can retrofit the existing system for under $100M. I'd like to know more about why JTA does not believe that's a feasible option?

Reducing the value of the infrastructure through conversion to NAVI or a trail seems like a nonstarter to me, especially when it'd be competing with the Emerald Trail or producing more uncomfortable shuttle service people clearly don't want to ride.

Spending a dime to build an elevated trail when Council is already trying to raid funding for non-downtown Emerald Trail segments is a nonstarter.

[jaxlongtimer]

The Times-Union out with new cost estimates for each alternative, provided to the JTA Board at a workshop today ahead of public meetings next month and a final recommendation at the end of October.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2026/08/26/jta-reveals-estimated-costs-for-skyway-future-alternatives/91479651007/

Read the article for more details, but here are the topline sums in the article's order:

• Rehabilitate the existing Skyway to add 10-12 years of life: $276 million
• Place new APM trains on the Skyway structure & extend to Brooklyn: $428 million
• Convert the Skyway to accommodate NAVI & add ramps: $294 million
• Demolish the Skyway & operate NAVI in mixed traffic: $152 million
• Turn the Skyway into an elevated trail & operate NAVI in mixed traffic: $260 million
• Build a modern streetcar at street level: $565 million
• Do (essentially) nothing: $15 million

Assuming we agree to kill NAVI, I would like to see what the two options cost, sans NAVI: (1) converting it into an elevated trail and (2) demolishing it.  I would have to think they would stand out as, by much further, the cheapest options after doing nothing.  It's disingenuous (fraudulent!?) to include NAVI in these options (see quotes below) to cover up what NAVI really cost.

Yes, I see the comments disparaging these options, but as I just posted on another Skyway thread, its time to move on from the Skyway, a failed mass transit solution that I doubt anyone could justify building today.

More info from the article on the elevated trail and demolition options priced out, but with NAVI included, which is stacking the deck against these options by themselves.:

Demolish Skyway and operate autonomous shuttles on street
Demolishing the Skyway structure and replacing it with an expansion of NAVI shuttles in downtown would cost about $152 million.

In this alternative, JTA would have 17 stops for NAVI shuttles including in the Brooklyn neighborhood. As many as 45 of the autonomous vehicles would operate at street level and pick up passengers every 5 minutes at the stations.

Turn Skyway into elevated trail and run shuttles at street level
An estimated cost of $260 million would keep the Skyway but turn it into an above-ground path for walking and bicycling that's connected to the Emerald Trail network of paths in downtown and surrounding neighborhoods.

In that scenario, JTA would use up to 45 NAVI shuttles with 17 stops including in Brooklyn for transit around downtown.

[thelakelander]

The prime source has already proven themselves to be financially irresponsible. Over $30 million in debt linked to a dream of implementing something no one wants, hell or high water, regardless of the costs and risks beyond local control.

None of these estimates are reliable. Burn them. Jax would be better off running a regular bus on the street than investing more money in NAVI, but that's not even an option. Independent analysis is needed.

[Lostwave]

If we had (hopefully soon we will) lots of people living down town, and lots of clusters of good activity (Pearl, Stadium, Elbow, 5 points, Brooklyn, San Marco) and they were all connected to the skyway, it would be used constantly.  The reason its a failure is because no one lives near it.  In seattle they have a monorail that essentially goes nowhere, but its full a lot.  It gets used.  Because people (residents and tourists) are around it.  If we can get the people, and update it, the skyway would be a success.  Navi is and always has been a non-starter.  Even if we had the people, its pretty much quicker to walk.

[acme54321]

They could at least move forward with adding the brooklyn station that was quietly shelved.  If they can figure out how to get it to Atlantic Blvd in San Marco via the FEC ROW that could be a win.  I don't see expansion to Five Points as realistically feasible.