The Downtown jail fallacy

[Jax_Developer]

Larger-scale public/private buildings (jails, stadiums, hospitals) are typically only designed/built/intended for 40-year life cycles. Some instances justify retrofitting/renovation, but often times it's easier to just start new. Not saying we are there right now with the DT complex now, but it will start to become more of a reality the next several years.

[thelakelander]

Yes, even building new elsewhere, maintenance on the existing must be done since it will still be in use for years to come. Pay it and figure out the future.

[vicupstate]

Yes, even building new elsewhere, maintenance on the existing must be done since it will still be in use for years to come. Pay it and figure out the future.

While this is true, mentally it is difficult to invest $16 mm into a building that is likely to be demoed in less than a decade. Somebody dropped the ball by letting it get to this point. Mold can be a major liability. It really wouldn't be hard for an appropriate attorney aligned with an asthmatic inmate and the family of a dead inmate to bring a class action lawsuit against the city over this jail.     

[vicupstate]

Maybe the city should look at taking maybe $20-50 million to build a jail annex at the future location of the entire jail. Put the inmates on the worst floors (in terms of physical deterioration) in the annex. Then eventually the annex just becomes an integral part of the new facility. Of course that means picking a location NOW, which frankly needs to happen anyway.  It just seems so wasteful to spend big money on a building for just a few years of benefit.   

[thelakelander]

I'm skeptical that this city will have a new jail open in less than 10 years. They could pick a new site tomorrow and it still take a good decade to complete a new structure and be 100% out of the existing structure. Friendship Fountain, Riverfront Plaza, JWJ Park, bringing Amtrak back DT, The Trio, Shipyards Park, etc. are all examples of things that should have taken minimal time to complete, yet will stretch out to 10 years (some are already passed that point) for 100% implementation. However, none of them require 1/2 billion in public funds. $16 million is ultimately a drop in the bucket under that realistic timeline scenario.

[vicupstate]

Actually Lake, when the city WANTS to do something, it can in a reasonable time frame.  Just put a sign that says "Jacksonville Landing" on the roof of the jail and it will be down in no time.   

[jaxlongtimer]

Actually Lake, when the city WANTS to do something, it can in a reasonable time frame.  Just put a sign that says "Jacksonville Landing" on the roof of the jail and it will be down in no time.   

Or, build a jail that the Jaguars can use (maybe to hold the occasional Jag player breaking the law... one just got arrested this month for domestic violence) and we will quickly find whatever it costs to build it.  Can even call it Lot J(ail)!

[thelakelander]

Lol, we're great at tearing stuff down but suck at building anything to replace what we've ripped down. Still waiting on a replacement for the Landing. Can't do that with a jail. We have to successfully build a replacement first before having an implosion party! Maybe pay the Jags to build one. They at least have a proven track record of finishing the projects they start.

[Ken_FSU]

What's even scarier than the physical state of the Duval County Jail itself is the medical treatment being given to prisoners by a provider that was recently awarded a no-bid contract by the JSO to handle prisoner care. Over the last four months, four prisoners have died under the care of our city. The Times-Union has filed numerous public records requests dating back to mid-summer, and have gotten nothing back from the JSO to date.

Not that it really matters, as even convicted criminals deserve humane care, but it's important to remember that even those who haven't been formally convicted and are awaiting trial are subject to these conditions.

As a city, we can't allow the JSO and prison to operate as a black hole absent accountability and communication with the public.

On the actual facility itself, it's really hard to know who to believe when it comes to it current condition. Just four or five years ago, Curry and Brian Hughes were saying that the reason they wanted to move it was because it was standing in the way of a unified Sports & Entertainment district spanning down Bay Street. Now, we want to move it because it's mold-ridden and collapsing in on itself? If that's truly the case, then the jail needs to be priority #1 for the city. But these are some of the same people who told us that JEA needed to be sold because it was a sinking ship, that the Hart Bridge ramps needed to be removed to facilitate port activity at Talleyrand, that Lot J needed to be approved or else we'd lose the Jags, and that the Landing was standing in the way of downtown redevelopment.

Would love to see a truly independent analysis of our current prison situation by an entity that didn't have ties to special interests who would benefit from the construction of a new jail.

I'd hope that such an analysis would also look at the root cause of why our prison is so over capacity, and what could be done municipally to curb and reduce the prison population.

[thelakelander]

Now, members are grappling with how to handle the immediate problems each building faces while also deciding if the jail should be relocated outside of downtown.

The immediate needs listed for the jail alone totaled more than $9 million. High priced items of more than $1 million each included elevator and electrical infrastructure upgrades. Lower priced items ranged from mold remediation and fire pump replacement to drain repairs and kitchen equipment replacements.

The Police Memorial Building's needs were broken into categories: critical (totaling $3.8 million), necessary but not critical to operation (totaling $290,000) and necessary if the building was not moved in five years (totaling $1.8 million).

Critical needs mentioned by JSO representatives in attendance included updates to the building's air conditioning system and electrical infrastructure.

If addressed, a JSO representative said the funding would be a one time ask to return the facilities to "status quo." Regular maintenance and upkeep would still be needed after.

Moving the jail out of downtown would "be five years away at best," Salem said. The Police Memorial Building, however, could be moved into an existing building downtown.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2023/11/20/jacksonville-city-council-considers-jail-police-memorial-building-maintenance-ahead-of-move/71591558007/

[Charles Hunter]

These current critical needs for the Jail and Police Memorial Building seem to result from deferred (or ignored) continuing maintenance. Previous sheriffs, mayors, and city councils have ignored the maintenance needs of these city assets to "keep taxes down."  Now the bill is coming due. The estimated $15 million is about 3% of JSO's $500 million budget. Take the first half of the cost from the current JSO budget for the most critical needs, and find elsewhere in the budget, or from JSO's next year's budget.

The article says "More than 700 people work from the Police Memorial Building now." But, because the JSO has to cover 24 hours in shifts, not all 700 are in the building at the same time - what is the maximum number of employees on-site at one time? Also, does that 700 number include officers who are (or should be) patrolling the streets?