Amtrak's Vision: Jacksonville/Orlando/Tampa

[acme54321]

Lastly, its too bad they can't add a stop in Gainesville.  A direct connection from Downtown Jax to UF would be pure gold for Jax.

That ship has sailed and it's not coming back.

Based on CSX's system map, there is a rail connection to downtown Gainesville.  Agreed, it is not easy as it's a spur off of another spur from Starke.  Unless it's a dedicated train between Jax and Gainesville, it probably would be too much of a detour off the main line.  As noted, Waldo is on the main line.  A stop there might link via a "commuter" bus for the 13 miles into town from there. 

Eventually, a dedicated train or Waldo stop might make greater sense as the area between Jax and Gainesville gets more consumed by urban sprawl and it's no longer an easy drive (some might argue the Blanding route is already not so easy).

CSX system map:
https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers/maps/csx-system-map/

That line is way out of the way to get into town, and I think I remember reading somewhat recently that CSX was looking to pull it up back to the powerplant too.  I was on it about 6 months ago and it is very overgrown and generally in rough shape.  It's also not really "downtown" as a sense of the place.  For this kind of thing to work the station needs to be walkable to the city center IMO, that site isn't.

The thing with Gainesville is that pretty much all of their historic railbeds are intact, mostly all extensively converted to rail trails over the last 15 years.  Those trails are a huge asset to the city and I think it would be a cold day in hell before they gave that up.   If this was 15 years ago and they were still just abandoned ROWs I might think differently.

[marcuscnelson]

I remember us discussing a rail line to Gainesville a few months ago, the conclusion I came to was that the only way to make timetables worth using would be to rebuild the line from Waldo along SR 24/Waldo Road and getting as close as possible to University Avenue. And then you'd be running a commuter-style service up the CSX S-Line to Baldwin and then into Jacksonville. Especially if you single track it, I don't see why there wouldn't be enough room to leave some kind of trail adjacent to the track with a fence to separate the two. The FRA now allows lighter European style DMU vehicles like those being used in Dallas and San Diego without any waivers.

[thelakelander]

Where there's a will, there's a way. If there was real desire, the infrastructure issues could likely be figured out. Jax's biggest obstacle to anything like this is that the entities we typically rely on for these projects have no real desire or interest.  With interest, these types of projects take a generation to move from concept to reality. Because there's no desire to seriously consider these types of concepts, these projects likely take multiple generations (30, 40, 50 years, etc.) to come through fruition. We've talked about moving Amtrak back downtown for 30 years now. LRT +20 years and commuter rail for at least 15. If we would have committed to anything of these things, they'd be operational by now. The studies done years ago are out of date and useless now. Millions wasted. So anything we hear now, is really no different from what we heard in 2005 unfortunately. Yet we've spent millions on the U2C, which is more expensive, unproven and financially risky than everything else discussed in the past. So I really hope the Biden bill passes or an entity like Brightline ends up being a success. When it comes to any type of rail service enhancement, it will 100% be an entity outside of Jax successfully getting funding and pulling their project off first.

[jaxjaguar]

1.5hrs from Orlando to Tampa isn't bad at all. Especially with how bad traffic gets when school's out. I'd take that for sure as long as the ticket prices aren't too bad. Not sure if everyone heard about Brightline removing their coach class. Now instead of $40 round trip from Orlando to Miami it's $100 minimum each way...  Rick Scotts gotta make his money somehow I suppose 

[marcuscnelson]

^ Brightline never had a coach class. Smart Service was always intended to be the equivalent of Business Class. Select Service was replaced with Premium, and both are the equivalent of First Class. And honestly, I don't recall there ever being a point where less than $100 from Miami-Orlando was a realistic likelihood.

But at the end of the day, if Brightline looks too pricey, and you're willing to lose an extra 90 minutes or so, there's a decent possibility that Amtrak will be happy to provide an alternative travel option between Orlando and Miami with its additional service.

[thelakelander]

Plus that Amtrak line will drop you off in Orlando or Winter Park, while Brightline will only get you to the airport or Disney.

[thelakelander]

Why Amtrak should be on Jacksonville's radar



Amtrak could be expanding intercity passenger rail operations in Jacksonville. Here are a few reasons why Amtrak's plans should be on Jacksonville's radar.

Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/why-amtrak-should-be-on-jacksonvilles-radar/

[thelakelander]

The infrastructure bill passed last night. Amtrak to receive billions.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/28/politics/infrastructure-bill-explained/index.html

[ProjectMaximus]

T-shirt that I got from the Amtrak booth at the APTA expo last week. We're at least on their radar enough to be printed on their promo swag. 

[tufsu1]

^ Thanks Brandon

[thelakelander]

Love it! We're on their radar. My question would be if they are on ours (i.e. JTA, COJ, DIA, etc.)?

[Charles Hunter]

There is a Special Election to fill Tommy Hazouri's county-wide Council seat. There are 4 candidates, perhaps the Jaxon could ask each of them where they stand on this issue (and others).
The election is December 7, Mail-In voting is underway, and Early Voting starts November 27.

[marcuscnelson]

In an interesting twist, Palatka appears to have beaten Jacksonville to putting together and acting on a plan to improve passenger rail.

The A. Philip Randolph Regional Multimodal Transportation Hub in Palatka has been awarded an $8 million RAISE grant from the U.S. Department of Transportation to fund lengthening and raising their train station's platform, as well as making safety and accessibility improvements to the surrounding area.

Other cities awarded federal RAISE grants for rail station projects include Charlotte, Yuma, and Detroit.

[thelakelander]

Great move by Palatka. The funny thing about my time on the NERTC is that the rural counties were bigger supporters of commuter rail than the larger urban counties. This is because their population relies on things that can only be found in Jax that we take for granted, like the concentration of medical facilities.

[marcuscnelson]

Interesting point. You'd think that the city would feel otherwise, supportive of making it easier for people from surrounding communities to come and spend money on things that generate local sales tax or bed tax or any others. Another sign of Jacksonville's priorities, I guess.

It looks like the station plans have been in the works since at least before the pandemic, but I wonder if they'd seek to extend the second track from north of town through at least the station area, if not through most of town. It's only about a mile and a half of rail, and if there's going to be four trains a day stopping there, a bypass of some kind is probably a good idea.