Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB

[tufsu1]

DDRB generally liked the new design and provided conceptual approval today.

[Steve]

Personally I liked the architecture a little better with the previous design, but the site plan is fine with this one.

That said, I feel like this whole thing will delay this a lot. Not in DDRB's purview but still disappointing.

[Ken_FSU]

^Per the incentive deal with the city, they've now got five months (from DDRB approval) to obtain permitting and commence construction.

[thelakelander]

This article covers the reason behind the new plan and value engineering:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/new-plan-for-laura-trio-project-in-downtown-jacksonville

[acme54321]

At this rate, fine.  I just want to see them save those three buildings and if they fill in the rest of the block even better.  New architecture is so-so but not the worst.

[landfall]

Is this in danger of falling apart again?

They said they wanted a deal done by the end of January in a Daily Record article. It's now nearly the end of March. To think Atkins was trying to convince us he could construct 14 new buildings and landscape a whole new riverfront!

[fieldafm]

Is this in danger of falling apart again?

They said they wanted a deal done by the end of January in a Daily Record article. It's now nearly the end of March. To think Atkins was trying to convince us he could construct 14 new buildings and landscape a whole new riverfront!

Atkins is still trying to find a way to raid money from the Jacksonville Housing Authority, money that should be earmarked for badly needed affordable housing units, but instead will be used to satisfy what should be the developer's own capital contributions into the project and also exempt them from ever paying property taxes in exchange for a few affordable housing units mixed in to a much larger market-rate project (ICYW, there would be a 10 year tax abatement anyway for rehabbing landmarked properties).

Unfortunately, this whole deal stinks.

[fieldafm]

I don't think she meant to imply that the Trio should be torn down, but she definitely implied a general hostility to incentives focused on historic adaptive reuse.

If

But massive subsidies for projects on vacant land like Lot J is okay??

She's not a fan of putting money into historic properties. From the article:

"Now that we just gave them an extra $2 million, there's essentially no cash that they're putting into this," she said.

"Now, I have ... philosophical reasons on why we shouldn't be giving money for historic properties. I think that if the private sector doesn't see that it's something we should be doing and it's not going to make money, then I would just rather, for the most part, tear them (the Trio) down and build something else that does make money."

Maybe someone should show her the rent per SF in historic downtowns, versus the rent per SF in DT Jacksonville.

Although there are inconsistencies in her statements, Cumber is absolutely correct on this statement:

"Now that we just gave them an extra $2 million, there's essentially no cash that they're putting into this," she said.

In the package City Council voted on, the developer's capital contribution was something like $6mm (thats the 'cash' they are putting into the deal), which was mostly the value of the land they already owned that had an existing mortgage on it. That mortgage was required to be paid off prior to COJ securing the historic renovation loans against the property.  City Council then decided to give the developer additional money to help pay off that existing mortgage.  Money that would otherwise have had to come out of the developer's own pocket.


Currently, the developer is trying to get additional money earmarked for affordable housing projects via the Jacksonville Housing Authority (mostly money provided from the Federal Government as COVID relief) so that there will be essentially zero of their own money into this project.  Almost $10mm in cash is being asked for to buy the ~1 acre parcel (thats about $9mm more than Vystar paid for the ~1acre parcel across the street) to pay off the existing mortgage and then act as the developer's capital contribution to finance the residential building construction.  Basically, COJ is putting up money, the bank is putting up money, and the developer isn't.  And there will never be any property taxes generated from the project, only an annual lease payment that will be used to repay the debt the Jacksonville Housing Authority would take on to help fund this project.  That's a legitimate moral hazard problem that needs serious vetting from City Council (which likely will raise little real objections or do much introspection in the end).

All of this is being done under the guise of providing badly needed affordable housing.  A legitimate need. However, there are much more impactful ways to leverage $10mm to create affordable housing units.  In the Laura Street Trio scenario, $10mm will provide a few dozen (small) units (with no parking).  $10mm could easily be used to create one or maybe even two 100+ unit affordable housing complexes (with parking).  There is a lot of smoke here...

[heights unknown]

Here we damn well go again. Any hope that we can pull OUT of this funk and get this project moving?

[landfall]

Q2 2022 and still no shovels in the ground.

Starting to think Atkins is a bit of a cowboy, talks a far better game than he delivers. His Riverfront proposal just looks more laughable by the minute. Hopefully somehow someway we can finally get this thing rehabbed and Atkins gets relegated back to the shadows.

[heights unknown]

Q2 2022 and still no shovels in the ground.

Starting to think Atkins is a bit of a cowboy, talks a far better game than he delivers. His Riverfront proposal just looks more laughable by the minute. Hopefully somehow someway we can finally get this thing rehabbed and Atkins gets relegated back to the shadows.

And...while they are all possibly, somehow, stuffing money in their pockets and then reneging on the project, and/or, coming up with excuses to not get it done and asking COJ for more money. They need to be jailed and/or imprisoned.

[landfall]

Q2 2022 and still no shovels in the ground.

Starting to think Atkins is a bit of a cowboy, talks a far better game than he delivers. His Riverfront proposal just looks more laughable by the minute. Hopefully somehow someway we can finally get this thing rehabbed and Atkins gets relegated back to the shadows.

And...while they are all possibly, somehow, stuffing money in their pockets and then reneging on the project, and/or, coming up with excuses to not get it done and asking COJ for more money. They need to be jailed and/or imprisoned.

Between the likes of Atkins and Spandrel recently theres too many weak developers who have been getting access to prime plots of land and real estate. When you are desperate like Jacksonville is, you sadly take chances like this.

[heights unknown]

Q2 2022 and still no shovels in the ground.

Starting to think Atkins is a bit of a cowboy, talks a far better game than he delivers. His Riverfront proposal just looks more laughable by the minute. Hopefully somehow someway we can finally get this thing rehabbed and Atkins gets relegated back to the shadows.

And...while they are all possibly, somehow, stuffing money in their pockets and then reneging on the project, and/or, coming up with excuses to not get it done and asking COJ for more money. They need to be jailed and/or imprisoned.

Between the likes of Atkins and Spandrel recently theres too many weak developers who have been getting access to prime plots of land and real estate. When you are desperate like Jacksonville is, you sadly take chances like this.

I agree; but then when they get it (the property) they lie, misleading the public and others to believe that they are going to develop the property, get money from DIA/COJ, then probably spend the money on whatever, and then want more money or make up excuses citing the need for additional money/funds. They're all con and scam artists in my opinion. I'll bet if I pulled something similar I'd be arrested, convicted, and given no less than 15 years in Prison.

[vicupstate]

^^ He probably isn't getting any money from the public until he actually starts work. Construction costs have definitely risen with everything else, so I can see why the numbers keep changing. That said, the whole Riverfront plan undermined his credibility, which wasn't in large supply to begin with. He needs to finish the Trio before making a play for anything else.   

[heights unknown]

^^ He probably isn't getting any money from the public until he actually starts work. Construction costs have definitely risen with everything else, so I can see why the numbers keep changing. That said, the whole Riverfront plan undermined his credibility, which wasn't in large supply to begin with. He needs to finish the Trio before making a play for anything else.   

Amen Vic.