Landmark downtown restaurant River City Brewing could make way for apartments

[BridgeTroll]

Perhaps it's time to consider whether the constantly broken and high maintenance and repair cost Friendship fountain should be replaced with something useful...

[tufsu1]

^ but COJ is about to fix it again

[BridgeTroll]

Wow... completely underwhelmed by that...

[thelakelander]

Perhaps it's time to consider whether the constantly broken and high maintenance and repair cost Friendship fountain should be replaced with something useful...

Good point.

[Charles Hunter]

Does Friendship Fountain break so much because the City doesn't do regular maintenance on it? When they do major repairs, they buy cheap parts and equipment? Does the fountain in Lake Eola in Orlando have as many problems?

[thelakelander]

Based on what I've heard today, although I believe the plan can be improved to be more interactive, I can live with the project if it goes through. A plan was shown illustrating Friendship Fountain improvements that will be added by December 2021. They included a concessions/restroom building, a kid's splash pad, kid's play and picnic areas. Boyer also mentioned that the DIA envisions a Safe Harborish fish camp style restaurant pad on the adjacent city owned parcel on the west side of the boat ramp. An underground riverfront fuel tank at the marina will also be relocated.

[thelakelander]

[marcuscnelson]

I'd want to see some of that in writing or something. The DIA can envision anything, that certainly doesn't mean it will happen.

[Steve]

^I listened in as well. I still think the best opportunity is to have a restaurant somewhere around the upper left of the rendering of the above (upper right of the development plan), but I also think it's a compromise. I do think pressure should be there to push for that to actually happen.

Another thing addressed is the riverwalk, as it breaks at the Acosta Bridge/RR Tracks. Basically Boyer explained that because there isn't as much vertical clearance under the Acosta on the Southbank (as opposed to the northbank), there isn't a way to go up and over the RR tracks. While disappointing, I get it. they're going to enhance the sidewalk down San Marco Blvd, then Prudential, then adjacent to the new apartments being built by OneCall. This sucks, but I don't know of an easier alternative if you can't cross the RR tracks at grade.

Now, I'll point out that with the path outlined you're still crossing the RR tracks at grade but I guess there's much less temptation to walk out onto the Railroad bridge all the way from Prudential than if there's an at grade crossing right at the bridge. the only other way you could solve this is to have two of the "corkscrew" structures (like on the northbank) actually in the river. That seems...pricy.

[Steve]

I'd want to see some of that in writing or something. The DIA can envision anything, that certainly doesn't mean it will happen.

Looks like the Friendship park building (restrooms and concessions) is in writing and seemingly will happen. The restaurant west of the boat ramp seems doable, but definitely conceptual.

[thelakelander]

At the meeting, they punted the design aspects of the apartment building to the DDRB and focused on the financial package. The park improvements, MOSH 2.0 restaurant and potential marina restaurant pad aren't included in the Related project.

[blizz01]

So MOSH plans to add a restaurant as well?  Is it conceivable that we'd actually NET +1?

[Steve]

At the meeting, they punted the design aspects of the apartment building to the DDRB and focused on the financial package. The park improvements, MOSH 2.0 restaurant and potential marina restaurant pad aren't included in the Related project.

That's something that seems like a flaw in the process. The SIC (Strategic Implementation Committee)'s role seems almost entirely financial, though the DIA did definitely tweak this design a little. Their role seems to be to craft the financial package. The DDRB likely wouldn't push for any major changes because it would disrupt the financial package. Thus, there doesn't seem to be an opportunity for real public input on things that go  through the SIC.

I'm not sure what the exact solve is. The DDRB requires some pretty good detail on what comes before them, even if you're seeking conceptual approval, so a developer won't want to spend a lot of resources on that if there's no shot at a financial detail before SIC.

I'm not a developer so I don't know exactly what should happen, but I'm thinking that the DIA/DDRB should significantly lower the bar on what's required for conceptual approval - just identify a rough site plan, rough scale, and rough use(s). I feel like a project like this, even in a very rough conceptual stage should go through DDRB for conceptual, then go through the SIC process, then come back to DDRB for final. It's not any more steps; it just changes the order of those steps.

[Steve]

So MOSH plans to add a restaurant as well?  Is it conceivable that we'd actually NET +1?

They do plan a cafe, yes, in MOSH 2.0 (their big plan). But, I'm not sure if that will be open to the public (in other words, do I have to buy admission to get to the cafe)? My guess is yes. They may have some outside seating (no idea), but like the Cummer it's fenced off so you have to go through the museum first.

[thelakelander]

I'm not sure what the exact solve is. The DDRB requires some pretty good detail on what comes before them, even if you're seeking conceptual approval, so a developer won't want to spend a lot of resources on that if there's no shot at a financial detail before SIC.

The answer is something people have been saying that downtown needs for years.....a real master plan. Boyer spent the first 10 minutes of her presentation this morning,  defending criticisms about the design of the project by mentioning things no one knew. She talked about the potential restaurant pad, MOSH 2.0 and renovations at Friendship Fountain that would include restrooms and a concession kiosk. These are all basic things that would be in a master plan. If made available to the public and development community in a more transparent manner, everyone would have already known and those who want to invest in projects would already know how their investment could fit and assist in achieving the overall vision.