Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development

thelakelander · January 28, 2020, 10:15:02 AM

Why build a garage on the pond site if they're talking about a phase 2 with buildings in that location?

Tacachale · January 28, 2020, 10:17:43 AM

Quote from: thelakelander on January 28, 2020, 10:15:02 AM
Why build a garage on the pond site if they're talking about a phase 2 with buildings in that location?

It's hard to tell what's even proposed anymore, but it looked to me like the parking garage had been pushed back to Phase II.

Ken_FSU · January 28, 2020, 10:31:35 AM

^Correct, the massive garage originally discussed for Phase I at the site of the retention pond has been replaced by an $8 million, 700-space surface lot in the same location.

That said, per the existing terms, the city will still be on the hook for $45 million in parking garages in Lot J proper, which will be built under some combination of the residential, hotel, and/or office buildings.

Kerry · January 28, 2020, 10:35:15 AM

Place your bets on the over-under for the taxpayer portion at $325 million.

I'm going to guess Over.

Ken_FSU · January 28, 2020, 11:17:55 AM

^For Phase I, I think we already know what it's going to end up at, which is $233.3.

Plus the hidden costs (Hart Bridge ramp demolition, giving the Jags the land for free, any loss of parking revenue, etc.).

The revised $700 million figure that Lamping quoted recently was inclusive of a second $200 million phase of the project.

For that second phase, based on similar Cordish developments, I'd expect the primary ask (in addition to remediating the land and transferring it to the Jags at no cost) to come in the form of the massive parking garage needed to replace the 700 spots the development would build over and provide parking for residents/workers of the new buildings.

thelakelander · January 28, 2020, 11:37:28 AM

The big question would be if any components of phase one have shifted to phase 2? If so, how does the shift impact what the city is expected to subsidize? I hope we aren't subsidizing luxury apartment buildings and hotels. It's pretty clear that the market can support these types of uses with no or limited subsidies. If not, developments like the Residence Inn by Marriott and Vista Brooklyn would not be breaking ground without heavy incentives.

Kerry · January 28, 2020, 01:32:34 PM

I am the target market for "luxury apartment" and there is no way I would live near the stadium. The last thing I want to live next door to is a giant bar/concert venue filled with drunks every weekend. I would prefer a grocery store next door. I lived at 220 for 3 years and if they hadn't screwed up the restaurant locations it would have been pretty good. If Vista hadn't been delayed so long I would have moved in there.

vicupstate · January 28, 2020, 02:16:44 PM

It never did make sense to have one massive garage that served the office tower, the residential tower and LiVE!. The office and residential buildings should have at least most of their parking in their own garages.

heights unknown · January 28, 2020, 02:57:44 PM

There will also be office/business towers in the mix yes? If it lasts and gets underway, that Lot J is going to be a big deal. Since they are building all of this on the old Stadium surface parking lots, will they have parking garages for the stadium parking or install additional extended surface lots?

Ken_FSU · January 28, 2020, 03:19:34 PM

Hearing that the public ask might decrease a bit in the final development agreement that goes to DIA and City Council.

Or, more accurately, shifted a bit to Phase II.

Office component seems to be out for Phase I, Live component might be slightly larger, and instead of a second 300-unit apartment tower replacing the office component for a total of 600 units, Phase I will be closer to 420 apartment units across multiple buildings.

Preliminary environmental testing is done, and the Jags want the agreement to be ready for review by end of month.

vicupstate · January 28, 2020, 04:24:32 PM

Based on Daily Place, there will be LIVE! and 600 apartment units in two or three mid-rise apartment buildings.

heights unknown · January 29, 2020, 08:45:18 PM

@ KenFSU...looks good anyway, regardless of which final direction they choose to go. Speaking for myself, I could never, ever imagine living in a high rise next to the football stadium, especially during the season. Those residential towers, I would imagine, will be built to some degree of "sound proof" specification(s). I might be 6 feet under when all is finished. I hope to get to see Jax finally flourish before I leave this earth. They just take so much damn time on stuff, don't plan or think it through, and waste so much time getting these developments underway, if they are legitimate at all.

minder · January 30, 2020, 04:47:37 PM

Quote from: Kerry on January 28, 2020, 01:32:34 PM
I am the target market for "luxury apartment" and there is no way I would live near the stadium. The last thing I want to live next door to is a giant bar/concert venue filled with drunks every weekend. I would prefer a grocery store next door. I lived at 220 for 3 years and if they hadn't screwed up the restaurant locations it would have been pretty good. If Vista hadn't been delayed so long I would have moved in there.

You say you are the target market yet it is very evident you don't want to be living anywhere near any noise or vibrancy. The market for peace and quiet is well saturated around Jacksonville so I'm sure you'll find plenty of places that meet your needs.

Ken_FSU · January 30, 2020, 05:09:10 PM

^I wouldn't be surprised to see apartment residents given the same perks that Cordish offered JEA employees in their headquarters pitch.

Ticket and season pass discounts.

First shot at concert tickets.

Private member events at the Live! complex and stadium.

Food discounts within the sports complex.

Etc.

Kerry · January 30, 2020, 06:10:58 PM

Quote from: minder on January 30, 2020, 04:47:37 PM
Quote from: Kerry on January 28, 2020, 01:32:34 PM
I am the target market for "luxury apartment" and there is no way I would live near the stadium. The last thing I want to live next door to is a giant bar/concert venue filled with drunks every weekend. I would prefer a grocery store next door. I lived at 220 for 3 years and if they hadn't screwed up the restaurant locations it would have been pretty good. If Vista hadn't been delayed so long I would have moved in there.
You say you are the target market yet it is very evident you don't want to be living anywhere near any noise or vibrancy. The market for peace and quiet is well saturated around Jacksonville so I'm sure you'll find plenty of places that meet your needs.

Or maybe you don't know what "luxury" means.