Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville

[thelakelander]

Is your opposition limited to this specific plan, or 85/15 demand pricing in general?

I'm not sure if this reply was in response to my reply above but my opposition to any parking plan or the 85/15 demand pricing model ignoring local context would deal with the need to first address a vision of what DT Jax should be and how to get there. Parking is just one of many tools that can either assist or hurt the process of achieving that vision, depending on what the actual vision is. Depending on that vision, the 85/15 demand pricing model could make sense or completely ripping out all meters and making on-street parking free could.

No one in this town appears to know what the end game or goal is for downtown. For decades it's been a continuous line of half-baked ideas and expensive projects built on assumptions made by individuals who hold power but have no clue or experience on how to revitalize anything.

Unfortunately, at this time it seems like most public entities are working in silos and those silos aren't exceeding in equitable public participation, input and buy-in before running head first to implement solutions for problems that actually may not even exist.

[Kerry]

Making downtown parking free during the day would be a total disaster and kill off any hopes of retail or restaurants.  There is a reason why you don't see large scale office space at the Town Center.  Office workers would take up all the free parking.  Downtown parking is already free after 6PM and on weekends and do you see any businesses open during those times?  Answer - very few.  Clearly free parking is not driving those types of businesses to downtown.

[Steve]

During events at the Times Union and Florida Theater demand pricing could charge for on-street parking near those venues with decreasing rates the further away you park.  However, there will certainly be times when parking is free throughout downtown.

Thinking solely about economics, I agree. In practice, variable priced meters would be completely confusing for people who don't go downtown often, which is a significant percentage of the population. If you want to get more people downtown, a parking policy that would confuse the average person is not ideal.

Cities around the world manage to do it.  Download the parking app to your phone and it doesn't only tell you how much it costs, but also tells you were the available spaces are.  I think that would make it less confusing for the average person.  Check out the ParkChicago or ParkBoston apps.

Here is a map of all the open on-street parking spaces in Chicago and the current parking rate.
https://map.chicagometers.com/

Right now there are 11 on-street spaces available in front of the Adler Planetarium at $2/hr.

Correct - in cities with vibrant urban areas where the population is used to paid parking I agree. Chicago can likely charge whatever it wants for parking. That isn't the case here.

[thelakelander]

Making downtown parking free during the day would be a total disaster and kill off any hopes of retail or restaurants.  There is a reason why you don't see large scale office space at the Town Center.  Office workers would take up all the free parking.  Downtown parking is already free after 6PM and on weekends and do you see any businesses open during those times?  Answer - very few.  Clearly free parking is not driving those types of businesses to downtown.

Parking isn't a primary driver but it can be a detriment if not coordinated properly with the overall goals of creating a vibrant environment.

Is there an example of where free time enforced on-street parking was a disaster or are you making an assumption based off a book by someone else you read somewhere? There are quite a few places that have vibrant dining and retail districts that offer free time limited on-street parking. Cleveland is an example of where free one hour parking is allowed and enforced on its main retail corridor (Euclid) in the heart of the CBD. Smaller examples include Greenville and Lakeland. The devil is always in the details and the details can differ depending on context, culture and economics.


Free on-street parking in downtown Cleveland.


Right across the street from this

Btw, Town Center is poor comparable.  That's a shopping mall developed by a single entity in a suburban area, which is full of suburban large scale office developments. It's a different contextual animal altogether.

[Captain Zissou]

I didn't watch a youtube video by some guy, but i did just go to Europe for 2 weeks where I used a parking disc almost every day.  It's a really easy way to do free hourly parking that everyone followed.  This could be implemented in Jax extremely easy and could probably pay for itself.  You want unlimited free parking in designated areas? Pay $5 for a parking disc.  Revenue goes to infrastructure improvements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_parking

[vicupstate]

Downtown parking is already free after 6PM and on weekends and do you see any businesses open during those times?  Answer - very few.  Clearly free parking is not driving those types of businesses to downtown.

There is Free parking on weekends and nights in DT JAX, but it is free everywhere else too. 

[Kerry]

You guys are funny.  When someone isn't educated on a subject you say go read a book, and then when some actually does read a book and becomes educated on a subject you denigrate that too.  Make up your mind.

Now back to the subject.  I don't know what the magic price per hour is for Jax that produces the 85/15 breakdown and that number is certainly different for each part of downtown.

I do know this though - downtown Jax meters are currently more than 85% full now which means 2 things.  1) We aren't charging enough and 2) People are discouraged from going downtown because there isn't any parking.

As for free parking, I guess you could do that if you limited the amount of time someone could park but that is problematic thanks to the Supreme Court ruling that wffectively makes enforcement unconstitutional.

[thelakelander]

You guys are funny.  When someone isn't educated on a subject you say go read a book, and then when some actually does read a book and becomes educated on a subject you denigrate that too.  Make up your mind.

I can't speak for others but I don't recall telling anyone to go read a book. But when I do see comments mentioned as facts that I know aren't totally accurate, I do try to challenge and point them out where they can then be validated or turned back.

Now back to the subject.  I don't know what the magic price per hour is for Jax that produces the 85/15 breakdown and that number is certainly different for each part of downtown.

I do know this though - downtown Jax meters are currently more than 85% full now which means 2 things.  1) We aren't charging enough and 2) People are discouraged from going downtown because there isn't any parking.

My recommendation is to take a step back and first begin to look at things holistically. For all we know, one or two could be right or both could be wrong.

As for free parking, I guess you could do that if you limited the amount of time someone could park but that is problematic thanks to the Supreme Court ruling that wffectively makes enforcement unconstitutional.

The cities that offer it pull it off some sort of way. So it can be done if that is the desired outcome.

[Steve]

I do know this though - downtown Jax meters are currently more than 85% full now which means 2 things.  1) We aren't charging enough and 2) People are discouraged from going downtown because there isn't any parking.

This argument doesn't really hold water. For example, if you wanted 15% of the meters free in Lower Manhattan, you'd likely need to charge about $150 for 30 minutes - probably more. Most of the people that suffer through driving their own car (or have a dedicated driver) are either obscenely wealthy, or have very important business matters that can not be done anywhere else in the world other than lower Manhattan and they have to be there.

[J Random Sucker]

Clearly free parking is not driving those types of businesses to downtown.

ISWYDT

[Kerry]

Lower Manhattan tops out at $7.50/hr and Chicago tops out at $6.50/hr inside the Loop.  As for Greenville, as mentioned earlier that is a political decision and not a financial decision.  They are leaving a lot of money on the table which could be used for any number of pedestrian, bicycle, and mass transit initiatives.  I know Greenville is looking at implementing some sort of rail system so we'll see how they fund it.

[thelakelander]

As for Greenville, as mentioned earlier that is a political decision and not a financial decision.  They are leaving a lot of money on the table which could be used for any number of pedestrian, bicycle, and mass transit initiatives.

They very well could be leaving money on the table. However, it's difficult to say that what they've done so far has not been a part of creating a very vibrant community. Sometimes higher quality of life and the end user experience are determined to be more important priorities for a community than milking people for additional revenue. That's why I say it's better to first determine what your community's ultimate goals are, then tailoring tools like parking management to best assist in delivering that outcome.....which doesn't have to be about how much money you can make off the end user.

[Kerry]

I just added this to my reading list.

https://www.amazon.com/Parking-Management-Best-Practices-Litman/dp/1932364056/ref=pd_aw_sim_14_20?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1932364056&pd_rd_r=ce19333f-ee16-4bbc-9e8e-1e091bb3a933&pd_rd_w=5bdAs&pd_rd_wg=eKJgO&pf_rd_p=a966b482-aeee-4b16-9ffe-9a1cb857c30c&pf_rd_r=2YSJ7BFH8QTA8RGEQTQ1&psc=1&refRID=7VCKXACBZ9FSJCBYJFDR

[Lostwave]

I don't understand why Jax feels the need to privatize everything.  All that means is someone else makes money instead of it going back into the city coffers.  The streets (and parking) are a public service and the city should own and profit from those, not some random CEO. 

The city govnt should just hire a smart, well paid manager to run the parking better and everyone wins.  Parking could be a profit center for the city, or at least break even... as opposed to letting some private company make money on public investment.

[Kerry]

I don't understand why Jax feels the need to privatize everything.  All that means is someone else makes money instead of it going back into the city coffers.  The streets (and parking) are a public service and the city should own and profit from those, not some random CEO. 

The city govnt should just hire a smart, well paid manager to run the parking better and everyone wins.  Parking could be a profit center for the city, or at least break even... as opposed to letting some private company make money on public investment.

I agree 100%.  From parking to selling JEA to cutting Khan in on profits from Daily's Place - it is little wonder this city is strapped for cash which will only get worse.