Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020

[landfall]

As much as Jax is growing how much of that is just more and more sprawl out the way, especially south?

I don't know that more cookie cutter apartments or office complexes or chain restaurants and strip malls built miles from the core of the city (basically post annexation Jax) represents the healthy growth of a city. Within the historical limits of the city it takes years just to get a frickin Publix built.

So yes its growing in a statistical sense, but in the bigger picture its really just suburban dormitory car centric communities 15-20 miles plus from the city. Many of these are places so disconnected  from the city itself that it barely even feels like Jacksonville. It always makes me laugh when people consider St. Augustine a suburb of Jacksonville. Its like 40 miles away! Maybe in NYC or Chicago or even Atlanta that might be fair but we're talking Jacksonville...

[Ken_FSU]

Someone with more knowledge of the history of the site might be able to weigh in, but I heard from someone a while back that part of the reason that the development shifted any potential high rise off of Lot J proper and onto that Phase II parcel where the retention pond is located is because preliminary subsurface investigation turned up a shit load of very large debris under the Lot J parking lot that would have been difficult/cost prohibitive (insert LOL here) to work around.

Specifically, some kind of a large train or pulley system of sorts used to be under Lot J to drag ships out of the water.

Begs the obvious question though as to why the subsequent cost of said high-rises wasn't also shifted out of Phase I when the project scope radically shrunk.

To me, the glaring red flag on the project sheet is the boutique hotel, which the developer claims will cost around $120 million.

That's a A MILLION DOLLARS PER KEY.

For context, the new Margaritaville in Jax Beach is about a fourth of that number ($250k-ish per key).

The Lot J hotel is also just over twice the cost-per-key as the most recent Live by Loews opened by Cordish in Texas last year ($500k per room for a 14-story, 300 room high-rise with five restaurants, a market, and a swim-up bar, event space, and a rooftop terrace).

Does anyone know of a single boutique hotel buit in the last couple of years that cost $1 million per key? Bear in mind this is purely construction cost too, as they aren't paying for the land.

[thelakelander]

Someone with more knowledge of the history of the site might be able to weigh in, but I heard from someone a while back that part of the reason that the development shifted any potential high rise off of Lot J proper and onto that Phase II parcel where the retention pond is located is because preliminary subsurface investigation turned up a shit load of very large debris under the Lot J parking lot that would have been difficult/cost prohibitive (insert LOL here) to work around.

Specifically, some kind of a large train or pulley system of sorts used to be under Lot J to drag ships out of the water.

Begs the obvious question though as to why the subsequent cost of said high-rises wasn't also shifted out of Phase I when the project scope radically shrunk.

There hasn't been any real mention of Phase II, since the Four Seasons thing across the street came out. What's the schedule and public request on that in comparison with the Four Seasons parcel and lease negotiation timeline? The proper way to handle Lot J would be to use it for whatever we agreed to as the solution years ago. Perhaps the cap should remain in place and that lot be greened. Perhaps the pond should remain and another parking lot for infill development makes more financial sense for taxpayers. Anyway, if no towers are being built for whatever reason, it would make sense to adjust the development costs and overall deal to reflect what is actually being built.

To me, the glaring red flag on the project sheet is the boutique hotel, which the developer claims will cost around $120 million.

That's a A MILLION DOLLARS PER KEY.

For context, the new Margaritaville in Jax Beach is about a fourth of that number ($250k-ish per key).

The Lot J hotel is also just over twice the cost-per-key as the most recent Live by Loews opened by Cordish in Texas last year ($500k per room for a 14-story, 300 room high-rise with five restaurants, a market, and a swim-up bar, event space, and a rooftop terrace).

Does anyone know of a single boutique hotel buit in the last couple of years that cost $1 million per key? Bear in mind this is purely construction cost too, as they aren't paying for the land.

Have any council members or the DIA asked how these numbers compare with Cordish's other projects? Why does the Jax hotel cost far more than the hotel at Texas Live, yet the Texas Live hotel has 180 more rooms and is 14 stories? Breadbox or not, this makes no sense.


Live by Loews by Cordish in Texas

[marcuscnelson]

It really is just ludicrous how much we're getting screwed on this deal, isn't it?

[jaxlongtimer]

Times Union editorial now out calling for Lamping to pull the Lot J proposal for the good of the community and the Jaguars.  I agree.  If this passes the City Council, they may win the battle but lose the war.  It is clear the Jags will suffer a huge black eye.  If the project fails or doesn't live up to the Jags hype, it will be even worse.  Given the risks, it just doesn't make sense to push forward with the lousy deal Curry "negotiated" (gave them on a silver platter).

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/opinion/2021/01/03/opinion/4085497001/

Mark Lamping, we are asking you to take the Lot J proposal off the table. Mayor Lenny Curry won't because he is too politically invested. But you can. You can because you want the Lot J project to succeed. As it currently stands, it won't.

You might be able to get the project through the City Council. Plenty of time has been spent behind the scenes conferring, cajoling, assuring and promising. And the proposal has been repeatedly tweaked.

But you have a problem that has not been addressed. The Lenders...

...Mr. Lamping, your Lenders want to see a feasibility study and market and cost-benefit analyses. They have questions, lots of questions. The questions have been articulated by Times-Union reporters and columnists, civic groups and numerous citizens at every public meeting. We won't go into them here.

If you love Jacksonville, take Lot J off the table. Lot J is tearing the city apart. Promises have been made by the mayor that the taxpayers do not want to keep...

...It's in your own best interests to take this off the table. The blowback is affecting Shad Khan's standing in the city and can only be demoralizing to an already dejected team. It will hurt the negotiations over the Shipyards and Metropolitan Park. And then there's the stadium...

...Take Lot J off the table. Have a do-over.

Knowing what you know now, come back to the table with a deal that everyone can buy into.

Give The Lenders the respect they deserve.

Mr. Lamping, you're the only one who can make this happen. The Return on Investment will be priceless.

[landfall]

R.e future development, if Trevor Lawrence pans out, no one will care. Sports fans are fickle. They'll roll the red carpet out if anything. Public opinion on this team will very quickly change over the summer IMO if they draft Trevor Lawrence and bring in Urban Meyer as the Head Coach.

[Ken_FSU]

Truly embarrassing Twitter war going on between Garrett Dennis and Lenny Curry right now, with each accusing the other of cheating on their wife (Curry with a Clay County hooker, Dennis with Anne Broche's assistant).

Originally stems from Curry wanting to meet up and fight a random citizen who insulted his wife on Twitter.

We gotta do better than this in 2021.

[thelakelander]

https://twitter.com/BenBeckerANjax/status/1345870388924973057

Curry and Dennis should delete their social media profiles, show up in the Myrtle Avenue Subway in midnight and fight it out bare knuckle one good time, winner take all, lol.

[Charles Hunter]

Another pre-adolescent, like his hero the Orange Seditionist.

[thelakelander]

I'm surprised he just won't stay off it or at least stop posting his personal and family business or going back and forth with social media trolls.

[jaxlongtimer]

Truly embarrassing Twitter war going on between Garrett Dennis and Lenny Curry right now, with each accusing the other of cheating on their wife (Curry with a Clay County hooker, Dennis with Anne Broche's assistant).

Originally stems from Curry wanting to meet up and fight a random citizen who insulted his wife on Twitter.

We gotta do better than this in 2021.

Here is an update including some of the conversation.  Doesn't speak well of any of the participants but Curry kicked it off responding to a poster.  Having the head of the police union defending the Mayor tells you everything about what the Mayor did for the police when he "eliminated" their pension fund.  He clearly gave them far more than they gave up.  Just like he will do for Khan with Lot J, Metro Park, etc.

Give Dennis credit.  He joins Nate Monroe in expertly pulling the Mayor's chain .

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/local/mayor-lenny-curry-gets-in-twitter-skirmish-with-threat-to-fight-and-allegations-of-affairs/77-cdacf8f0-17bf-47da-afd5-57acc05ba56d

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. — Fighting words, literally, from Jacksonville Mayor Lenny Curry as he participated in a recent Twitter skirmish.

The mayor spent part of his New Year's weekend engaging in heated Twitter exchanges with City Councilman Garrett Dennis and Fraternal Order of Police President Steve Zona, as well as relatively anonymous Twitter users.

It started when the mayor posted a photo of him and his wife celebrating New Year's Eve.

Twitter user @davec36411362, who also goes by ImpeachLennyCurry, responded by blasting the mayor's wife.

Curry's response was a challenge. "Name the place. Show your face. I'll be there."

That's when Dennis got involved, Tweeting he'd been the recipient of similar "tough guy talk" from Curry.

Zona then joined the thread, firing off a Tweet accusing Dennis of inappropriate behavior with another woman.

"Wasn't it you council member who was making thousands of phone calls to another woman or who were those calls made to ?  Was it work related ?  At least the mayor sticks by his wife."

Curry retweeted Zona's accusation, and added his own observation: "She knows. Everybody knows."

He has since deleted that Tweet.

Dennis retorted by saying Curry had skeletons in his own closet -- an allegation without apparent merit.

Reaction to the Twitter skirmish was mixed. Many defended Curry, but many others chastised the mayor for acting inappropriately, given his position.

Florida Times-Union reporter Christopher Hong Tweeted, "Let's hope all the out-of-town companies and professionals city officials talk endlessly about bringing to Jacksonville aren't on Twitter."

First Coast News reached out to the Mayor's Office for comment.

[acme54321]

I just got this random robot text:

"First JEA, now...A BAD Lot J deal is about to pass. Contact your Councilwoman @ 9042555205 or LCumber@coj.net & tell her to scrap Lot J! bit.ly/38Hhv1z
Stop2End"

Someone is putting their money where their mouth is

[marcuscnelson]

It'll be very interesting if they actually manage to push this hard enough to scuttle the deal. I suppose it's a matter of whether enough people do in fact call their council-members demanding they vote against it. Not saying it'll happen...

[fsu813]

It'll be very interesting if they actually manage to push this hard enough to scuttle the deal. I suppose it's a matter of whether enough people do in fact call their council-members demanding they vote against it. Not saying it'll happen...

Cm Newby attended the Urban Core CPAC meeting this evening. He said he supports the LOT J deal, mentioned the new deal is far better than the original deal proposed, and that the final deal is still being negotiated. He thought it would get out of committee-of-whole this week.

Three people spoke about it at the meeting, all not in favor of the terms as reported.

[Charles Hunter]

Did anyone ask him if the same city subsidy for a smaller project is a "better deal"?