The Ford on Bay

[Steve]

Any convention center should be primarily geared towards the local population.  Except for a hand full of the largest convention centers, primarily in tourist destinations, almost all users are local residents.  Very few convention centers host more than a handful of national conventions.

Not sure that's accurate. I attend 6 or so conventions every year, and while usually 1 or 2 are in the big ones (like McCormick in Chicago), the rest are in places like Columbus, Scottsdale, Pittsburgh, etc.

Give me a little while and I'll pull the schedule for one of the midsized cities. It's truly a good split.

[heights unknown]

Any convention center should be primarily geared towards the local population.  Except for a hand full of the largest convention centers, primarily in tourist destinations, almost all users are local residents.  Very few convention centers host more than a handful of national conventions.

Not sure that's accurate. I attend 6 or so conventions every year, and while usually 1 or 2 are in the big ones (like McCormick in Chicago), the rest are in places like Columbus, Scottsdale, Pittsburgh, etc.

Give me a little while and I'll pull the schedule for one of the midsized cities. It's truly a good split.

What really bothers me about this, that is, all this convention talk, is that we (Jax) is not a mid-sized city; or not supposed to be (thanks to consolidation). Maybe we are. But look; this is why we need to shed that small, mid-sized city thinking and think big, out of the box if you will. WE are a city of almost a million people. Now in my opinion, if we can't think out of the box, and want to think small minded, we really need to throw consolidation out of the window, annex some surrounding neighborhoods around the old urban core and city limits, and become the mid-sized or small size city that we really probably are, 200K to 350K. It just befuddles me that it appears that Jax is afraid to be the big city that we really can be.

[thelakelander]

Jax is a metro of 1.5 million. The top tier MSAs are +6 million and above. Jax is a mid sized city of 200k that consolidated with its core county. It may have nearly 900k residents spread across an 800 square mile area but it's not the same scale as a San Francisco. Nevertheless, we can do better, regardless of how big or small we are when compared to other places.

[thelakelander]

Now this makes a lot more sense. Kudos if they can actually pull this off because it really does resolve the convention center issue for the foreseeable future:

The Hyatt's right of first refusal dates back to the late 1990s when the city did a development deal for construction of the hotel, which was built originally under the Adam's Mark brand.

Boyer told the JEA board that discussions continue with Hyatt officials. She said one path could be to build exhibition space into the residential buildings, which would give the Hyatt more room to host conventions that pull guests to the hotel.

"There are a number of other avenues and approaches that we'll be evaluating," she said.

Spandrel is open to incorporating exhibition space into its building and has done it elsewhere, said Emanuel Neuman, principal of the company.

He said an exhibition hall would have its own floor and a separate entrance from the rest of the building, so its activities wouldn't affect residents.

Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200221/city-might-use-design-competition-for-future-vision-of-landing-site-post-demolition

[bl8jaxnative]

Convention centers area  public money pit.  The smartest thing for the public to do is stay out of the business.  The hotels will take care of it where it actually makes sense.

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/20050117_conventioncenters.pdf

[Steve]

Now this makes a lot more sense. Kudos if they can actually pull this off because it really does resolve the convention center issue for the foreseeable future:

The Hyatt's right of first refusal dates back to the late 1990s when the city did a development deal for construction of the hotel, which was built originally under the Adam's Mark brand.

Boyer told the JEA board that discussions continue with Hyatt officials. She said one path could be to build exhibition space into the residential buildings, which would give the Hyatt more room to host conventions that pull guests to the hotel.

"There are a number of other avenues and approaches that we'll be evaluating," she said.

Spandrel is open to incorporating exhibition space into its building and has done it elsewhere, said Emanuel Neuman, principal of the company.

He said an exhibition hall would have its own floor and a separate entrance from the rest of the building, so its activities wouldn't affect residents.

Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200221/city-might-use-design-competition-for-future-vision-of-landing-site-post-demolition

This would require a level of coordination that this city doesn't execute well. But yes....if this could be done then it COULD be a win-win.

[Tacachale]

Convention centers area  public money pit.  The smartest thing for the public to do is stay out of the business.  The hotels will take care of it where it actually makes sense.

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/20050117_conventioncenters.pdf

That ship sailed over 30 years ago. We're already in the business. Might as well do it in a way that gets the best results for the least money.

[Tacachale]

Now this makes a lot more sense. Kudos if they can actually pull this off because it really does resolve the convention center issue for the foreseeable future:

The Hyatt's right of first refusal dates back to the late 1990s when the city did a development deal for construction of the hotel, which was built originally under the Adam's Mark brand.

Boyer told the JEA board that discussions continue with Hyatt officials. She said one path could be to build exhibition space into the residential buildings, which would give the Hyatt more room to host conventions that pull guests to the hotel.

"There are a number of other avenues and approaches that we'll be evaluating," she said.

Spandrel is open to incorporating exhibition space into its building and has done it elsewhere, said Emanuel Neuman, principal of the company.

He said an exhibition hall would have its own floor and a separate entrance from the rest of the building, so its activities wouldn't affect residents.

Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20200221/city-might-use-design-competition-for-future-vision-of-landing-site-post-demolition

This would require a level of coordination that this city doesn't execute well. But yes....if this could be done then it COULD be a win-win.

Since it would be private entities taking the lead, it could be easier to pull off than cases where the city decides to try and do things itself. But yes, that's a good point.

[heights unknown]

Jax is a metro of 1.5 million. The top tier MSAs are +6 million and above. Jax is a mid sized city of 200k that consolidated with its core county. It may have nearly 900k residents spread across an 800 square mile area but it's not the same scale as a San Francisco. Nevertheless, we can do better, regardless of how big or small we are when compared to other places.

I agree; no argument here. But dammit, think outside of the box and think within the realm of who you say you are and who you dared to be and are; embrace it, accept it. I know what the metro and CSA populations are...well aware, but I'm talking city, and, as I said in my post, we are probably anywhere from 200K to 350K (in reality) and that's probably being generous (if neighborhoods are annexed IF we ever ditch consolidation). Yes! We can do better, and that's what I am saying, alluding to, and have been screaming in this forum for years. Thanks Lake for your post.

[Kerry]

Jax is a "big city" only in land area.  Population wise we are about mid-level, but at the corporate/business level, we are way down the list.  We just don't have the business presence most large cities have available to them.

[heights unknown]

Jax is a "big city" only in land area.  Population wise we are about mid-level, but at the corporate/business level, we are way down the list.  We just don't have the business presence most large cities have available to them.

Agreed Kerry, agreed. But the population, in which I am well aware sucks up all of Duval County except for a couple of cities that opted out of consolidation, screams "big city" to people and others (businesses and corporations), that don't really know Jax. Like I've always said; maybe we should shed the consolidation, annex additional areas and neighborhoods around the old city limits, and shrink back to the mid-size city that we really are, which probably is around 300k, and, I might be generous here. But as the old soul song says, "it's too late to turn back now." We consolidated, been that for about 52 years now, and city leaders and government needs to bring the city up to par and in line with what "on paper" our population is.

[Kerry]

Yes Jax has a population of 1.5 million but to me that number doesn't reflect reality.  My friends in St Johns County do not consider themselves part of metro Jacksonville, even if the government does.  At best, they work in southern Duval County (Gate Parkway/Deerwood/Baymeadows) but that is it.  They don't do anything else in Jax and now with Durbin Creek they have even less reason to cross the County line.

Basically, we have 1.5 million but they are almost all spread across thousands of square miles with no synergy.  It is just 4 counties of low density urban sprawl.  Howard Kunstler coined the phrase for this - there is just no "there" there.

[Peter Griffin]

we need more First Coast Synergy (TM)

[Charles Hunter]

Basically, we have 1.5 million but they are almost all spread across thousands of square miles with no synergy.  It is just 4 counties of low density urban sprawl.  Howard Kunstler coined the phrase for this - there is just no "there" there.

Actually, Gertrude Stein coined the phrase. But it does apply to NE Florida.

"There is no there there"
It appears in Gertrude Stein, Everybody's Autobiography (Random House 1937, p 289) and is often applied to the city of her childhood, Oakland, California.

Gertrude Stein - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Gertrude_Stein

[Kerry]

Thanks Charles.  I stand corrected on the origin.