Covent Garden Market & What's Next For The Landing

[Wombley Womberly]

Not that I'm aware of. The scenes pictured attract locals more than tourist.

I can't seem to locate a source that agrees with that assessment.  What did you base it on?

[thelakelander]

Personal experience with both places and in the case of Pensacola, people who live and operate some of the businesses there. What source are you using to disagree with that assessment?

[Wombley Womberly]

What source are you using to disagree with that assessment?

I'm not disagreeing with "that statement". I'm asking you what you based it on.

[thelakelander]

Also knowledge that Jax does have a decent tourism base. That base just isn't spending as much time in downtown as it could be if the right investments were made.

[Wombley Womberly]

Also knowledge that Jax does have a decent tourism base. That base just isn't spending as much time in downtown as it could be if the right investments were made.

Interesting.

What would you consider "a decent tourism base?"

Who would be responsible for making these "investments?"

[thelakelander]

$3.2 billion generated annually isn't bad:

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/05/07/visit-jacksonville-reports-record-breaking-tourism.html

COJ would be responsible for needed investments such as cleaning, maintaining and activating its parks, streets, programming, and ensuring local policies are in place to help guide the market and good pedestrian scale design.

[Wombley Womberly]

$3.2 billion generated annually isn't bad:

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/05/07/visit-jacksonville-reports-record-breaking-tourism.html

COJ would be responsible for needed investments such as cleaning, maintaining and activating its parks, streets, programming, and ensuring local policies are in place to help guide the market and good pedestrian scale design.

The article you cited is dated 2018 and covers 3 months. It's also based on figures provided by "Visit Jacksonville," whose credibility hasn't been established AFAIK. They are hardly disinterested parties.

Isn't Visit Florida, the statewide marketing organization, in danger of losing its state funding because there are questions about its efficacy and fraud concerns?

[thelakelander]

No worries, feel free to share another source.

[Wombley Womberly]

No worries, feel free to share another source.

I haven't made any assertions that require citing a source, have I?

Are you familiar with Strong Towns?

[Tacachale]

No worries, feel free to share another source.

I haven't made any assertions that require citing a source, have I?

No, you're just picking around the edges of the statements that we're making. Pensacola is a third of Jax's size and doesn't have so much of a tourism base that it would cover the gap (and as Ennis says, Jax does have a solid tourism base). If clustering can work in Pensacola it can work in Jax.

[Wombley Womberly]

No, you're just picking around the edges of the statements that we're making. Pensacola is a third of Jax's size and doesn't have so much of a tourism base that it would cover the gap (and as Ennis says, Jax does have a solid tourism base). If clustering can work in Pensacola it can work in Jax.

Good luck to you, then.

[Adam White]

The basic principles would be clustering pedestrian scale development and activity in a compact area around the Landing. The result would be more density and foot traffic to help support market rate development and business investment opportunities. The concept pretty much applies to rural towns just as much as it applies to a global metropolis. It doesn't mean you'll get same businesses in Covent Garden Market. However, you won't end up with dead spaces either.

Covent Garden was an established urban area for centuries before the market was moved owing to traffic congestion concerns, and the repurposed main structure is utilized by millions of tourists annually, which is what makes it viable, as far as I know. It is a highly-prized residential address as well. Moreover, it is served by a variety of public transport options. What "live spaces" do you envision for the Jacksonville Landing, which possesses none of those characteristics?

Covent Garden (as a district) was not particularly thriving before the redevelopment of the market. Obviously there was more density - but the area wasn't heaving with tourists and full of shops, restaurants, etc.

One thing London has over Jax is density - even in the less-salubrious areas, there are people living. Downtown Jax needs to get more people living there. Of course, these things don't happen in isolation and will have to develop over time.

But no one is saying Downtown Jax = Covent Garden (or the Landing = Covent Garden Market). But the principles that led to the current state of affairs in Covent Garden (and in the Market) are what can be applied to Downtown and the Landing. The scale might be different (and I doubt any part of Downtown Jax will ever resemble Central London for vibrancy), but things can be done to make it better. And although it's not unreasonable to wonder whether redevelopment of the Landing will make a difference (it can, but won't in isolation), I can guarantee that it stands a better chance than another open space.

[Wombley Womberly]

Covent Garden (as a district) was not particularly thriving before the redevelopment of the market.

Interesting. Who told you that?

[Adam White]

Covent Garden (as a district) was not particularly thriving before the redevelopment of the market.

Interesting. Who told you that?

I can't think of anyone ever telling me that. Why would you assume someone did?

[Wombley Womberly]

I can't think of anyone ever telling me that. Why would you assume someone did?

If nobody told you "Covent Garden (as a district) was not particularly thriving before the redevelopment of the market," where did you get that impression?