Repealing Deception: The Landing and Public Engagement

[martt12]

Welp, looks like we still have Curry a little longer. I wonder what historical property he's going to aim to destroy next. All in favor of making an argument that we need a place for food and entertainment- "give you the new bison for the shipyards" . It's so obvious that's the goal.

Another thing, off topic.... they really need to make these restaurants inside the buildings of the downtown core visible with outside seating. If they do tear the Landing down and go with this horrible plan at lease do that.... and as some said... this grassland will be a place for the homeless. I don't know why work isn't being done too help get homeless people off the street more.... when my family and friends visit and pass thru downtown they all say it looks like Jax has a homeless problem.

[vicupstate]

Ouch!

Nate Monroe: Politics, not public input, is to blame for Landing stagnation

COMMENTARY | Mayor Lenny Curry has fashioned himself a different kind of Jacksonville chief executive, building over the past few years a creative — albeit flimsy — origin myth about what came before him and how he has since delivered the city from mediocrity.

Curry has indirectly criticized his predecessors — several of whom he sought endorsements from during his re-election, with tepid success — for relying too much on public input, for desiring consensus, for talking issues to death and in the process ultimately doing nothing. That kind of navel gazing, Curry has said publicly time and again, is responsible for so much stagnation. Heck, it's why the Jacksonville Landing has fallen into disrepair.

Ah yes, the Jacksonville Landing, downtown's notorious underachiever and divisive redevelopment puzzle. Taken at face value, Curry's argument about the defunct waterfront mall is appealing. It has indeed languished for years, and now Curry, after spending an enormous sum — $18 million — is on the brink of tearing it down.

The critics — those ninnies who now complain that it's not wise to tear a structure down without a plan to replace it — they would just have us talk the issue into oblivion. But not Curry, Man of Action. The Decider. Savior Curry. Reform Curry. The Quarterback.

This is nonsense, a dangerous myth that would grant a secretive mayor already inclined to bypass public input permission to continue doing it.

Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190503/nate-monroe-politics-not-public-input-is-to-blame-for-landing-stagnation

Finally getting around to reading the article. Is it just me, or is Nate Monroe the best thing that ever happened at the Times-Union?  i truly appreciate when someone cuts through the spin bullshit and tells the reader what is REALLY going on. 

[Chris Carson]

How many years has it been since the talk first started about removing the Liberty Street deck and razing the city hall annex and the old county courthouse? How many years has it been since the DIA talked about issuing all the RFPs for city owned land and vacant buildings in DT.  None of these projects are done and the two demo jobs are overbudget and behind in timeline. It will suck for the Hyatt to have the riverwalk closed off on both sides of it for months and then vacant lots for years afterward.

So some politician telling you they'll issue a RFP after they demolish the building, but providing no timeline of when that will happen or promise of if anything will even come out of it means literally nothing if your concern is about downtown vibrancy now and keeping the businesses that are hear now, open, alive and well.

Even if they issued a RFP for complete reuse of the facility today, you'd still be looking at two to three years before renovation would be completed. Since they literally have no plan other than to give a demo contractor a handout, it means for the new few years this site will be as dead as any other morbid location in downtown. By the time something happens, Curry, Hughes and the current bunch will be long gone and on to their next political job and we'll be the ones dealing with the war zone left.

Great post.

[Tacachale]

Ouch!

Nate Monroe: Politics, not public input, is to blame for Landing stagnation

COMMENTARY | Mayor Lenny Curry has fashioned himself a different kind of Jacksonville chief executive, building over the past few years a creative — albeit flimsy — origin myth about what came before him and how he has since delivered the city from mediocrity.

Curry has indirectly criticized his predecessors — several of whom he sought endorsements from during his re-election, with tepid success — for relying too much on public input, for desiring consensus, for talking issues to death and in the process ultimately doing nothing. That kind of navel gazing, Curry has said publicly time and again, is responsible for so much stagnation. Heck, it's why the Jacksonville Landing has fallen into disrepair.

Ah yes, the Jacksonville Landing, downtown's notorious underachiever and divisive redevelopment puzzle. Taken at face value, Curry's argument about the defunct waterfront mall is appealing. It has indeed languished for years, and now Curry, after spending an enormous sum — $18 million — is on the brink of tearing it down.

The critics — those ninnies who now complain that it's not wise to tear a structure down without a plan to replace it — they would just have us talk the issue into oblivion. But not Curry, Man of Action. The Decider. Savior Curry. Reform Curry. The Quarterback.

This is nonsense, a dangerous myth that would grant a secretive mayor already inclined to bypass public input permission to continue doing it.

Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190503/nate-monroe-politics-not-public-input-is-to-blame-for-landing-stagnation

Finally getting around to reading the article. Is it just me, or is Nate Monroe the best thing that ever happened at the Times-Union?  i truly appreciate when someone cuts through the spin bullshit and tells the reader what is REALLY going on.

Monroe isn't the best thing that *ever* happened to the FTU. That would be St. Bill Foley. However, he's definitely the best thing to happen to the paper in the last several years.

[Fallen Buckeye]

I think Mayor Curry is actually a closet tree hugger, and he's secretly trying to move everything away from the river to save it when the sea levels inevitably rise from global warming. He's just creating a buffer zone by destroying riverfront properties where he can (i.e.-Courthouse and Landing) and delaying the development of already cleared lots like the shipyards and Met Park. Bold plan, Mr. Mayor, but then again we are the Bold New City of the South.

[DrQue]

^^^ However unlikely that is, I would love for it to be true. Curry's playing 4D chess.

[Captain Zissou]

The unintended benefit of all of these demos is it will give us a chance to build new sea level rise systems on the waterfront downtown.  We will have almost a mile of undeveloped coastline on the northbank that can be built to better withstand storms, flooding, and general climate change.  I'd like to see a combination of both natural defenses as well as mechanical.

[Charles Hunter]

The unintended benefit of all of these demos is it will give us a chance to build new sea level rise systems on the waterfront downtown.  We will have almost a mile of undeveloped coastline on the northbank that can be built to better withstand storms, flooding, and general climate change.  I'd like to see a combination of both natural defenses as well as mechanical.

Aren't you forgetting that Trump and his acolytes (like Curry) deny that the climate is changing, or the sea level rising?

[Fallen Buckeye]

Sorry, I guess I should clarify that I was joking.

[Captain Zissou]

Sorry, I guess I should clarify that I was joking.

I know you were, but if the city was smart (spoiler alert... they aren't), they would require sea water rise protection measures to be implemented into each new project.

[Kerry]

Uggh!  We were supposed to be underwater already.  It didn't happen.  How long are you guys going to cling to this?

[Tacachale]

Uggh!  We were supposed to be underwater already.  It didn't happen.  How long are you guys going to cling to this?

When it's proven that Irma was all an elaborate illusion created by Big Climate.

[Kerry]

Uggh!  We were supposed to be underwater already.  It didn't happen.  How long are you guys going to cling to this?

When it's proven that Irma was all an elaborate illusion created by Big Climate.

Come on - you guys have believed in this long before Irma.  And Irma was only a big deal because we had record rains for the 5 days leading up to it.  If Irma happened 3 days later it would be about a big deal as Matthew was the year before.  And hells bells, Irma wasn't even that big a deal.  Localized flooding in places that are already flood-prone - big deal.

This reminds me of growing up in California in the 70's and 80's waiting for the BIG ONE.  Here it is 50 years later and we are still waiting.  Alas, there are still clowns in California waiting for it.

[Tacachale]

Uggh!  We were supposed to be underwater already.  It didn't happen.  How long are you guys going to cling to this?

When it's proven that Irma was all an elaborate illusion created by Big Climate.

Come on - you guys have believed in this long before Irma.  And Irma was only a big deal because we had record rains for the 5 days leading up to it.  If Irma happened 3 days later it would be about a big deal as Matthew was the year before.  And hells bells, Irma wasn't even that big a deal.  Localized flooding in places that are already flood-prone - big deal.

This reminds me of growing up in California in the 70's and 80's waiting for the BIG ONE.  Here it is 50 years later and we are still waiting.  Alas, there are still clowns in California waiting for it.

Irma cost $50 billion. Matthew cost $10 billion. Both in the US alone. That's not a big deal?

When I was growing up, many claimed that Jacksonville was hurricane proof because direct hits had been rare. Even though we were struck with massive damage by Dora in 1964, it was supposed to be a fluke. People didn't want to believe that we were vulnerable, and some continued believing that right to the point we were clobbered by Matthew and Irma.

[Kerry]

Cost $50 billion to whom?  Of course things cost more now and that has nothing to do with global warming, or climate change, or a coming ice age.  It has to do with inflation, increased cost of compliance, and labor expenses.  If we could rebuild something to the code that existed at the time of original construction it would cost a lot less.