Adaptive Reuse: An Artists' Vision For The Landing

[thelakelander]

It could to an extent but the entire exterior of the east side is all loading docks and mechanical.  Fixing that would cost more than rebuilding it.

This is the type of stuff the Kerrys, Currys and Hughes of the world should not be making decisions about. Issue a RFP and let qualified development teams that would be on the hook for funding redevelopment, come to the table with market ready workable solutions.

[FlaBoy]

Again, it is focused on the water and not the street - which was the primary design flaw to begin with. 99.9999% of the people access the property from the street.  Ultimately the only "fix" is to rotate the whole building 180*.  The U should face the street and not the river and words 'The Jacksonville Landing' should read correctly from the street, not the river.

There is absolutely nothing to prevent opening storefronts on the street side. It can open up to BOTH sides  and your typical Farmer's Market/ Food Hall would normally do that anyway.

It could to an extent but the entire exterior of the east side is all loading docks and mechanical.  Fixing that would cost more than rebuilding it.

There's plenty of area fronting Independent Drive that could be adapted to face the street.

A cheap solution would be something like this which is what they did at Sparkman's Wharf...

[thelakelander]

For Independent Drive, shipping containers aren't even necessary. A good chunk of the frontage is already storefront. Throw a public market or food hall in there, add some outdoor seating and you're essentially done.


This already faces Independent. Just add a use that opens up to Independent Drive and add outdoor seating to the courtyard.


It wouldn't take much to convert this space into some type of public market and it already faces Independent Drive.

Another option would be to kill the mall and reverse the storefronts to face Independent Drive since those walls are basically non load bearing anyway.


Replace the non load bearing sections of this facade with storefront openings and you have a situation where retail spaces open up to Independent Drive.

[thelakelander]

The revamp of Jack London Square in Oakland a couple of years ago is a good example of how to activate such a space:

[vicupstate]

Lake is exactly right. ALL you need is some selective demolition to right-size the building and create more space along the riverwalk, put a new color on the roof, and do some cosmetics on the interior (new interior colors, light fixtures, flooring, etc.) remove the interior walls to open it up. Turn the Independent side to storefronts. Then turn it over to an operator to fill it with Food Hall/Farmer's Market tenants.     

[marcuscnelson]

Ended up in a short argument with some guy on Instagram (I know, dumb idea) and here was his take in two comments:

He first said Hooters needs to close so they can get the demo done. When I asked what the landing should be replaced with, he said:

a bulldozer first. A new riverfront area that is not from the 70's! Something that draws people to the downtown area and held tourism.

When I told him that adaptive reuse is cheaper, faster, and proven, and that we need to have a plan before we tear things down, he responded with:

agree on the fact we should have a plan. BUT if we want majority or locals or anyone else to truly embrace it and to come they aren't going to be interested in a partial re-do. They are going to want completely new, fresh, exciting!

So this is apparently at least one of the mentalities we're up against.

[vicupstate]

It is the same mentality that got nearly all of LaVilla demolished, not to mention a big chuck of DT.

You can rehab it in such a way that it looks fresh and appealing.  All it needs is the HGTV treatment. 

[acme54321]

So this is apparently at least one of the mentalities we're up against.

And it's not uncommon...

[thelakelander]

Totally not uncommon from people with no professional experience in development, running retail, restaurants, museums, etc. That same person will likel marvel at IAW or various places in Savannah or Charleston. At the end of the day, the building itself needs to be taken out of the debate and focus should be placed on the type of uses. It's why a charrette focusing on design ideas and concepts from people with no experience in the field or money in the game is likely not needed. 

However, just about everyone will agree that some form of retail, restaurant, dining, or something that attracts people to the site, is needed. For example, many people may want a public market or food hall but have no idea that the costs for pulling off this type of use would significantly drop with reuse of space originally built to accommodate these types of uses. If the dream is high-rise office space or apartments, then obviously, the existing buildings won't work for that. If you want a park that attracts people, you'll likely need to include some form of space dedicated to retail/dining, tour booking, bike rental, restrooms, a visitors center or museum.  All are the type of uses that reuse may make more sense than demolishing and building new with more money and a longer development timeline that would put you in the risk of running into a recession and ultimately getting nothing done for another decade.

To keep maximum options open, a RFP needs to be issued for the property, seeking qualified developers or operators of the site to respond with proposals that will accommodate inclusion of mixed-use on the property, with consideration for adaptive reuse as an option.

[Kerry]

Replace the non load bearing sections of this facade with storefront openings and you have a situation where retail spaces open up to Independent Drive.

I'm not a 'tear it down type person' but that is a lot of ground to cover between the sidewalk and the building - well over 90'.  I'm a "Good Urbanism first' person and if the choice is between getting rid of bad urbanism and starting over vs. half-ass retrofit urbanism then I say start over.  Alas, the City has no intention of actually doing good urbanism (not do I believe is even capable of good urbanism) so I'm torn on this one.

[fieldafm]

Replace the non load bearing sections of this facade with storefront openings and you have a situation where retail spaces open up to Independent Drive.

I'm not a 'tear it down type person' but that is a lot of ground to cover between the sidewalk and the building - well over 90'.  I'm a "Good Urbanism first' person and if the choice is between getting rid of bad urbanism and starting over vs. half-ass retrofit urbanism then I say start over.  Alas, the City has no intention of actually doing good urbanism (not do I believe is even capable of good urbanism) so I'm torn on this one.

Before the City changed their own interpretation of the lease saying that the Landing's open container/alcohol service footprint was limited to the building itself (and not the entire property as was the interpretation for more than 30 years), there were plans in place to level out that entire area and create an outdoor beer garden, shuffleboard courts, bocce ball courts and a series of outdoor trellises to provide shade... that would have looked a lot like the Jack London Square image Lakelander posted.


But, sure.... we should tear it all down because 'bad urbanism', 'First Baptist', 'aquarium', insert your dumb excuse here ____

[fieldafm]

For Independent Drive, shipping containers aren't even necessary. A good chunk of the frontage is already storefront. Throw a public market or food hall in there, add some outdoor seating and you're essentially done.


Replace the non load bearing sections of this facade with storefront openings and you have a situation where retail spaces open up to Independent Drive.

You mean like this?  The fact remains that the exterior framing of the retail stall spaces pictured, are carbon copies of the interior framing... meaning the stall spaces were designed to be easily converted into exterior storefronts facing Independent Drive/Hogan Street simply by replacing the stucco facades with floor to ceiling window panes.



Nah, this building needs to be torn down because  '1980's mall', 'u-shaped design is horrible', 'you need to start over', insert your lame excuse here ____

[itsfantastic1]

Is there any particular reason (historic, civic, logistic) that the Jacksonville Farmer's Market wouldn't/couldn't move to the Landing in an attempt to make it a Pike's Place style market?

[thelakelander]

Logistics, costs and they already own the land they sit on. With that said, Jax did have a Pikes Place style market at the foot of Ocean Street. Unfortunately, it was considered blight, razed and replaced with a waterfront surface parking lot as a part of a 1950s downtown revitalization plan:

https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2015-may-authentic-jacksonville-the-city-market/page/

[fieldafm]

Is there any particular reason (historic, civic, logistic) that the Jacksonville Farmer's Market wouldn't/couldn't move to the Landing in an attempt to make it a Pike's Place style market?

Although the market was originally called the Duval Market & Association that operated at a location across the current railroad tracks from where the market is now, the now Jacksonville Farmers Market has been in its current location since the late 1930's... and is already located in the largest wholesale district south of Pittsburgh.

Beaver Street Fisheries owns the land (and the adjacent and empty former grocery store) and operates the market as a non-profit... subsidizing a portion of the market's operation.

In addition to already owning the land and subsidizing annual operations... JFM also spent over half a million dollars in the last two years to upgrade the facility. BSF chipped in about 3/4 of that cost, with the remainder coming from the Northwest Jacksonville Economic Development Trust Fund.

Given that, I don't see any reason that JFM would be interested in moving.

Although, that doesn't preclude a similar use (albeit more like Pikes Place in Seattle or the Ferry Building in San Francisco... that also features more dining and retail operations) from thriving at the Landing.