Times Union Editorial - Downtown: A picture of progress

[thelakelander]

Activity has replaced potential throughout Downtown Jacksonville.

Don't believe it? Well, read on. We may not convince eternal pessimist John Q. Cynic of the progress, but the evidence is as clear as the sunlight shining on the St. Johns River.

Cranes are popping up while ground-level improvements are taking place along the riverfront. Meanwhile, a series of urban trails looks both exciting and affordable.

From Brooklyn to TIAA Bank Field, from State Street to the Southbank, Downtown doesn't look too big anymore. It looks like a boom.

Besides activity, developers with proven track records are planning expansions. This is important because development Downtown is not simple or easy. It takes skill.

Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/opinion/20181216/downtown-picture-of-progress

[pierre]

I am happy to see the progress downtown.

However, I have spent time the past year in places like Charlotte, Milwaukee and Minneapolis. It's stunning how far behind we are in other cities across this country.

[KenFSU]

[Tacachale]

LOL! What's the source on that?

[thelakelander]

I am happy to see the progress downtown.

However, I have spent time the past year in places like Charlotte, Milwaukee and Minneapolis. It's stunning how far behind we are in other cities across this country.

Great observation. Jacksonville should be happy to see some positive movement take place in DT. However, if we look outside of our bubble and limited boundaries, we'll discover what's taking place here is and has been happening at a much faster pace in peer communities across the country. We'll also discover the synergy that comes with preservation, adaptive reuse, infill and higher density. It's time for us to learn from what worked and did not work in those places, not rest on one's laurels and pat ourselves on the back.

Oh...and Vesctor building an affordable apartment complex in Brooklyn should not ease any concerns about gentrification. Come on Jax, that's an issue that's way more complex than being able to live in a property you don't own and have no chance at building wealth.

[KenFSU]

^MS Paint, the spray nozzle brush, and a VERY boring Monday morning meeting.

It's way too early to be celebrating.

We've had some great wins, offset by other self-inflicted wounds, but there's a long way left to go, and it's ridiculous that we're constantly celebrating projects that aren't even signed.

[jaxnyc79]

Jax should study why it so woefully lags peer cities in its downtown vibrancy measures, and consider reforms so that it can be more responsive to lifestyle trends of the kind of people it wants to attract to and retain in the city.

[remc86007]

Jax should study why it so woefully lags peer cities in its downtown vibrancy measures, and consider reforms so that it can be more responsive to lifestyle trends of the kind of people it wants to attract to and retain in the city.

I don't think we need to pay for a study that tells us: 1. there is not enough residential downtown, 2. the population of the city is geographically more spread out than just about any other city, and 3. our city's "vibrancy" is divided among downtown, the urban neighborhoods, the beaches, "the jewel of the Southside," etc.

Why don't we just focus on building a residential base downtown? Once you get 10k people living within a mile of the CBD, the retail, hotel, convention center, and "vibrancy" will take care of itself.

Millions of dollars to move the jail rather than millions in incentives to build residential downtown on the empty lots and in the abandoned buildings is exactly the type of thinking that will keep us from making any progress.

[thelakelander]

I don't think we need to pay for a study but it would reveal this:

1. there is not enough residential downtown,

There is more people living in "downtown" now than it was in 1950.

2. the population of the city is geographically more spread out than just about any other city,

There's actually still some decent dense pockets within a three to four mile radius of DT. That residential population base is likely in the range of 100k to 75k residents (more than enough to build upon)

and 3. our city's "vibrancy" is divided among downtown, the urban neighborhoods, the beaches, "the jewel of the Southside," etc.

Which is exactly the same in every major metropolitan area across the country.

Once you get 10k people living within a mile of the CBD, the retail, hotel, convention center, and "vibrancy" will take care of itself.

10k being a magic number is also a false one. That number is totally dependent on how the environment is designed and how dense it is. 10k spread out between the Northbank, Southbank, Sports District, LaVilla and Brooklyn won't end up creating the scene everyone expects with that number. 10k in each of those districts would. What's more important is clustering enough density and mix of uses within a compact, pedestrian scale setting. This is the one thing that Jacksonville has continued to fail to prioritize with its various downtown revitalization strategies. Instead, we've found ways to spend big money to de-densify and expect different results. That is the definition of madness.

Redevelopment isn't difficult. Especially when there's a market clearly identifying itself (multi-family residential, hotels, etc.). Find ways to make it easier for these projects to happen and target the pedestrian hostile gaps between them. Pile as much complimenting activity into a compact pedestrian scale area as possible and you'll see synergy created between the uses that will lead to market rate retail, entertainment and dining opportunities.

[jaxnyc79]

I don't think we need to pay for a study but it would reveal this:

1. there is not enough residential downtown,

There is more people living in "downtown" now than it was in 1950.

2. the population of the city is geographically more spread out than just about any other city,

There's actually still some decent dense pockets within a three to four mile radius of DT. That residential population base is likely in the range of 100k to 75k residents (more than enough to build upon)

and 3. our city's "vibrancy" is divided among downtown, the urban neighborhoods, the beaches, "the jewel of the Southside," etc.

Which is exactly the same in every major metropolitan area across the country.

Once you get 10k people living within a mile of the CBD, the retail, hotel, convention center, and "vibrancy" will take care of itself.

10k being a magic number is also a false one. That number is totally dependent on how the environment is designed and how dense it is. 10k spread out between the Northbank, Southbank, Sports District, LaVilla and Brooklyn won't end up creating the scene everyone expects with that number. 10k in each of those districts would. What's more important is clustering enough density and mix of uses within a compact, pedestrian scale setting. This is the one thing that Jacksonville has continued to fail to prioritize with its various downtown revitalization strategies. Instead, we've found ways to spend big money to de-densify and expect different results. That is the definition of madness.

Redevelopment isn't difficult. Especially when there's a market clearly identifying itself (multi-family residential, hotels, etc.). Find ways to make it easier for these projects to happen and target the pedestrian hostile gaps between them. Pile as much complimenting activity into a compact pedestrian scale area as possible and you'll see synergy created between the uses that will lead to market rate retail, entertainment and dining opportunities.

I would agree with what thelakelander has said - not sure why everyone is obsessed with the 10K residents number.  Frankly, if downtown would spend some money helping businesses open up to street frontage and reduce or eliminate dead space, downtown would be immensely more inviting and might start to feel vibrant even when falling short of the 10K figure.  By the way, I hope getting a ton of big box chain stores downtown isn't the sign that downtown has "arrived." 

The study I referenced wasn't necessarily about the current state versus target state of downtown - it was more a study of how vulnerable Jax is to falling behind lifestyle trends, and why the city fails to timely execute on so many of its past studies.  Then again, if studies merely exist for Jax to ignore, then perhaps there's little to no more cause for any sort of study, no matter how well-intentioned.  Turns out, Jax ignores RFPs as well - so I suppose entirely new tacts will have to be discovered.

I do believe Downtown has some momentum - and I believe Riverside/Five Points, Brooklyn, San Marco (East and West), Springfield, and perhaps even St. Nicholas have the potential to be very nice complements to a rising CBD.  I'm in Charlotte now and the number of projects here throughout the core city is a large multiple of that which is happening in Jax - but Jax does have this really compelling and signature river, and if only it could find some way to deliver that asset to throngs of people every single day, downtown would be right where it should be.

[Keith-N-Jax]

1950 geez were right on schedule then. By 2030 they'll add 10 more people downtown.

[Keith-N-Jax]

Until those things get built, downtown is deader than a fish out of water.

[Jax-Nole]

What is this that was mentioned in that Times-Union article?

The Museum of Science and History is quietly planning for a dramatic redevelopment on its Southbank location, including expansion and renovation of its building and opening it to the St. Johns River Park around Friendship Fountain.

[Charles Hunter]

shhh ... they are QUIETLY planning ...
I wondered, too.  Sounds like it could be a good thing.

[KenFSU]

What is this that was mentioned in that Times-Union article?

The Museum of Science and History is quietly planning for a dramatic redevelopment on its Southbank location, including expansion and renovation of its building and opening it to the St. Johns River Park around Friendship Fountain.

This is something that MOSH has been talking about for a long time, and something that Lori Boyer has been a strong proponent of when working on her Friendship Fountain node. I know it's a long-term goal of MOSH, but like a lot of the things mentioned in the Times-Union article, it could be a while away. The early plans that I saw for the Friendship Fountain site didn't include a reconfiguration of MOSH, but maybe something has changed in the last six months.