New Horizon Mall - Calgary

[Kerry]

Was just perusing the internet this morning and came across the New Horizon Mall in Calgary.  First let me say that I know this mall is a disaster for several reasons but if something like this was built on a smaller scale, maybe like 50 to 75 stores, I think this would be a huge hit in Jax if built near downtown.  It would allow local businesses to compete with national retailers at the area malls and shopping centers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjIaMNl9fxQ&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3xyr0DBCeqxQudNAkr7bUPHZayBld2WmeYM-bUlyO2T2AzNoD663PnibE

[remc86007]

Why do you think it would be a huge hit?

The Landing's retail didn't exactly take the world by storm and that was attached to riverfront dining options in walking distance of the CBD. Riverside, Avondale, Murray Hill, San Marco, and Springfield already provide opportunity to local businesses.

[jax_hwy_engineer]

Nothing will beat the Town Center in Jacksonville for quite some time. Things like Tanger Outlets pop up all over and do well in the middle of nowhere, wheras indoor malls are dying all across the country. Heck, even the Avenues can hardly keep up with Town Center. It's just an outdated model that doesn't work like it used to. IDK why outdoor malls do better, but they're the current winner and trend.

[Kerry]

Why do you think it would be a huge hit?

The Landing's retail didn't exactly take the world by storm and that was attached to riverfront dining options in walking distance of the CBD. Riverside, Avondale, Murray Hill, San Marco, and Springfield already provide opportunity to local businesses.

The Landing is a special kind of failure with so many problems I couldn't even begin to list them here.  However, something like this would be far less expensive to build.  The entire mall in Calgary with over 500 stores costs $200 million.  With a smaller footprint it could easily fit in Brooklyn or the Southbank, or for that matter on the East San Marco lot.  Retail space is in limited supply in the core (and no more is going to be built in Riverside) and this would allow a large amount of local retailers to cluster together while keeping their overhead costs low.  It could even be built as an outdoor center although I would do it so every business was on the perimeter with a door to the sidewalk.

[Kerry]

Nothing will beat the Town Center in Jacksonville for quite some time. Things like Tanger Outlets pop up all over and do well in the middle of nowhere, wheras indoor malls are dying all across the country. Heck, even the Avenues can hardly keep up with Town Center. It's just an outdated model that doesn't work like it used to. IDK why outdoor malls do better, but they're the current winner and trend.

The indoor mall was the trend - invented in 1955 and for all practical purposes dead by 2000.  Outdoor malls have been around for millennia.

[Steve]

Anyone want to take a guess the last time an enclosed mall was built ANYWHERE in the United States?

Four Years Ago.

Source on that was from a Logistics and Supply Chain conference I attended two months ago.

[jaxjags]

Anyone want to take a guess the last time an enclosed mall was built ANYWHERE in the United States?

Four Years Ago.

Source on that was from a Logistics and Supply Chain conference I attended two months ago.

Have you been to Calgary in the winter. Very cold as in 10-20 below zero occasionally and 0 degrees not uncommon. Thus the need for indoor malls. The indoor mall in Edmonton is a tourist attraction for the area. Indoor wave pool, amusement park with a roller coaster and all.

[Adam White]

Nothing will beat the Town Center in Jacksonville for quite some time. Things like Tanger Outlets pop up all over and do well in the middle of nowhere, wheras indoor malls are dying all across the country. Heck, even the Avenues can hardly keep up with Town Center. It's just an outdated model that doesn't work like it used to. IDK why outdoor malls do better, but they're the current winner and trend.

The indoor mall was the trend - invented in 1955 and for all practical purposes dead by 2000.  Outdoor malls have been around for millennia.

Indoor malls existed before 1955. A look at any of the enclosed shopping arcades in European cities shows that. I totally get that the modern American form of the indoor mall was invented in 1955 (or 1956 - my sister lives in Edina, MN, the home of the original). But I think it's safe to say that modern outdoor malls don't really resemble the ones that "have been around for millennia".

[Steve]

Anyone want to take a guess the last time an enclosed mall was built ANYWHERE in the United States?

Four Years Ago.

Source on that was from a Logistics and Supply Chain conference I attended two months ago.

Have you been to Calgary in the winter. Very cold as in 10-20 below zero occasionally and 0 degrees not uncommon. Thus the need for indoor malls. The indoor mall in Edmonton is a tourist attraction for the area. Indoor wave pool, amusement park with a roller coaster and all.

Canada is an entirely different market. Even putting the weather aside, the US just has too much retail space overall. As of 2017, the US has23.5 SqFt Gross Leasable Area Per Capita. Canada has 16.4SqFt. In comparison, the UK has 4.6, and mainland Europe is well below even that.

BTW, this thing is HARDLY an economic boom:

"The mall opened its doors on May 1, 2018, As of September 2018, only 9 out of the over 500 retail spaces have opened for business"

https://calgaryherald.com/business/local-business/eerily-empty-new-horizon-mall-delays-grand-opening-developer-remains-upbeat

[Adam White]

Anyone want to take a guess the last time an enclosed mall was built ANYWHERE in the United States?

Four Years Ago.

Source on that was from a Logistics and Supply Chain conference I attended two months ago.

Have you been to Calgary in the winter. Very cold as in 10-20 below zero occasionally and 0 degrees not uncommon. Thus the need for indoor malls. The indoor mall in Edmonton is a tourist attraction for the area. Indoor wave pool, amusement park with a roller coaster and all.

Canada is an entirely different market. Even putting the weather aside, the US just has too much retail space overall. As of 2017, the US has23.5 SqFt Gross Leasable Area Per Capita. Canada has 16.4SqFt. In comparison, the UK has 4.6, and mainland Europe is well below even that.

BTW, this thing is HARDLY an economic boom:

"The mall opened its doors on May 1, 2018, As of September 2018, only 9 out of the over 500 retail spaces have opened for business"

https://calgaryherald.com/business/local-business/eerily-empty-new-horizon-mall-delays-grand-opening-developer-remains-upbeat

In Kerry's defence, he did say he was aware it was a disaster for many reasons.

[Glenn VL]

Just spittballing here so don't blame old glenn if this idea is "half baked", but your bulletin got my gears cranking! 

What if we could bring the town center to the downtown??? It would solve a few conumdrums. Now here me out. Clifton turned me on to this concept knowing i am a bit of a "futuroligist".
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/11/4/18061316/elon-musk-boring-company-la-tunnel-video&ved=2ahUKEwiK9_WghvPeAhUhrlkKHSISByMQFjAMegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0YdNrepuwGKfwFdsqZazxS&ampcf=1

Elon munsks has proven that it is possible to dig a hole and send a tube full of people from one corner of the city to the other. Picture it. Mini town centers all over jacksonville connecting to the jewel of the southside!  all it would take is a little vision and some investors looking to earn a kings ransome!!!

[Tacachale]

Just spittballing here so don't blame old glenn if this idea is "half baked", but your bulletin got my gears cranking! 

What if we could bring the town center to the downtown??? It would solve a few conumdrums. Now here me out. Clifton turned me on to this concept knowing i am a bit of a "futuroligist".
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2018/11/4/18061316/elon-musk-boring-company-la-tunnel-video&ved=2ahUKEwiK9_WghvPeAhUhrlkKHSISByMQFjAMegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0YdNrepuwGKfwFdsqZazxS&ampcf=1

Elon munsks has proven that it is possible to dig a hole and send a tube full of people from one corner of the city to the other. Picture it. Mini town centers all over jacksonville connecting to the jewel of the southside!  all it would take is a little vision and some investors looking to earn a kings ransome!!!

Glenn, you have been sorely missed.

[Kerry]

If nothing else the comments have been a great example of the 'Can Do' attitude Jax so sorely needs.

[thelakelander]

This place sounds like a retail condo flea market. What's so revolutionary about the concept? Plus at 50 to 75 stores, wouldn't it be smaller than the present day Landing building?

[Adam White]

If nothing else the comments have been a great example of the 'Can Do' attitude Jax so sorely needs.

Kind of funny coming from the guy who practically criticises everything posted on this site. Except for the Canadian mall thing, of course.